The Smoking Man
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No Russ.russ_watters said:I was thinking about that, (and I've argued it in the past), but people who want to hate don't tend to accept that - they look for any connection to the previous entity. That's the entire basis for nationalistic/racist hatreds that exist in many places in the world, going back centuries. It doesn't matter that we deconstructed the country "Japan" and made an entirely new one from its ashes - people want to hate the new one for the crimes of the old one. That's the main reason WWII happened in the first place! TSM, your mindest is the reason why wars happen.
The reason wars happen is because people feel an injustice.
Japan has never been punished for what they did during the war. They were in fact REWARDED for their trip through asia.
Japan has failed to make war repatriations, acknowledge their crimes and have officially elevated their version of Nazis to 'war gods' in the Yasikuni Shrine.russ_watters said:TSM, Germany is a fully-functional member of the world community. Do you understand how that is possible? Tell me why it is possible for Germany and not possible for Japan.
Russ, you asked about victims of this time and stated they were 'probably all dead'. I gave you examples of victims who were very much still alive and had been in the news to prove the longevity of the people.russ_watters said:TSM - Comfort Women? I know about them. This thread isn't about them. Honored war dead? It isn't about them either... Or is it? - is the whole point of this thread simply a random rant of anti-Japanese hate? Any reason to hate the Japanese, you'll bring up? Hey, while we're at it, why don't I bring up Tienanmen square again...? The Great Leap Forward? Hey, how 'bout Ghengis Khan?
russ_watters said:And glanders? I'm sorry, but I don't see any evidence in that article that it has anything to do with biological warfare. It apparenly used to be a more common disease coming from animals in 3rd world countries. This allegation seems equivalent to Americans accusing Great Britain of biological warfare for foot-and-mouth disease.
http://www.copi.com/articles/guyatt/unit_731.html
http://english.peopledaily.com.cn/200508/10/print20050810_201486.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unit_100[quote]Unit 100 conducted research about bacteria in and from animals. As most armies were still heavily dependent on horses, the IJA was looking for ways to kill them and therefore to weaken military power. The second purpose was to use animals as carrier of diseases. Experiments were also conducted with living human beings, but little record or proof of human experimentation has been found. (Unit 731 was created to develop biological weapons against humans.)After Unit 731 the Japanese troops set up germ units in many cities such as Changchun, Peking, Nanjing and Guangzhou. These units had over 60 branches or agencies with more than 10,000 personnel. By the end of the war in 1945 Unit 731 still had over 3,000 personnel.
The Harbin-based Unit 731 and Changchun-based Unit 100 manufactured large amount of anthrax and glanders germs. Unit 731 could produce 600 kilogram anthrax in one month. From 1941 to 1942 Unit 100 produced 1,000 kilogram anthrax germs and over 500 kilogram glanders germs.
According to studies almost all the germ units of the Japanese aggressors used living human beings to conduct germ weapon tests and researches on germ warfare and mass-produced germ weaponry. Apart from regular germ units various Japanese army hospitals, units or even normal troops, hospitals and medical associations also took part in the germ warfare.
Since 1938 the Japanese aggressors began to resort to germ warfare. Surveys conducted after the war show that they used germ warfare in more than 20 Chinese provinces. Of them Zhejiang, Jiangxi and Hunan saw the largest and most damaging germ warfare with Chinese victims reaching at least 270,000.
Biological Warfare Agents
The following potential agents were tested:
* Glanders Mr. Kuwabara gave testimony after WW2 that Unit 100 released horses infected with Glanders.
* Anthrax[/quote]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ishii_Shiro[/INDENT]
Anyone WITH a brain could actually formulate the idea that most of the evidence used to prosecute the Japanese for these atrocities would be held in Japanese military documents.
Since it was precisely this that trigered the government to enact bill s-1902and the address to congress in support of the bill:
You see Russ, this stuff is all related.
It is all related through the cover-up that has allowed the perpetrators to go unpunished and even prosper while the victims have been forgotten and forced to live in agony.
* Anthrax[/quote]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ishii_Shiro[/INDENT]
Well, thank the powers that we don't have to rely upon your reduced capabilities as a person with 'gut' reactions.TSM, my gut reaction to the OP was that this was a looking-for-a-reason-to-hate thread, and by bringing up half a dozen unrelated issues, you've confirmed that for me. If you want to talk about that one issue, talk about that one issue. Explain precisely what you think should be done about it. Otherwise, this just looks like one big anti-Japan rant. Ironic - I was thinking exactly the same thing!
Anyone WITH a brain could actually formulate the idea that most of the evidence used to prosecute the Japanese for these atrocities would be held in Japanese military documents.
Since it was precisely this that trigered the government to enact bill s-1902and the address to congress in support of the bill:
And the support documents following:Based on the evidence revealed at the War Crimes trials, as well as
subsequent work by numerous scholars, there is little doubt that Japan conducted these chemical and biological warfare experiments, and that the Japanese Imperial Army attempted to use chemical and biological weapons during the course of the war, included reports of use of plague on the cities of Ningbo and Changde.
And, as a 1980 article by John Powell in the Bulletin of Concerned Asia Scholars found,
Once the fact had been established that Ishii had used Chinese and others as laboratory tests subjects, it seemed a fair assumption that he also might have used American prisoners, possibly British, and perhaps even Japanese.
Some of the records of these activities were revealed during the Tokyo War Crimes trials, and others have since come to light under Freedom of Information Act requests, but many other documents, which were transferred to the U.S. military during the occupation of Japan, have remained hidden for the past fifty years.
And it is precisely for this reason that this legislation is needed: The world is entitled to a full and compel record of what did transpire.
Sheldon Harris, Professor of History Emeritus at California State university Northridge wrote to me on October 7 of this year that:
In my capacity as an academic Historian, I can testify to the difficulty researchers have in unearthing documents and personal testimony concerning these war crimes * * *. Here in the United States, despite the Freedom of Information Act, some archives remain closed to investigators * * *. Moreover, "sensitive documents--as defined by archivists and FOIA officers--are at the moment being destroyed.
Professor Sheldon's letter goes on to discuss three examples of the destruction of documents relating to chemical and biological warfare experiments that he is aware of: At Dugway Proving Grounds in Utah, at Fort Detrick in Maryland, and at the Pentagon.
This legislation establishes, within 60 days after the enactment of the act, the Japanese Imperial Army Records Interagency Working Group, including representation by the Department of State and the Archivist of the United States, to locate, identify, and recommend for declassification all Japanese Imperial Army records of the United States.
This Interagency Work Group, which will remain in existence for three years, is to locate, identify, inventory, recommend for classification, and make available to the public all classified Imperial Army records of the United States. It is to do so in coordination with other agencies, and to submit a report to Congress describing its activities.
It is my belief that the establishment of such an Interagency Working Group is the best way to make sure that the documents which need to be declassified will be declassified, and that this process will occur in an orderly and expeditious manner.
I am the author of "Factories of Death, Japanese Biological Warfare, 1932-45, and the American Cover-up" (Routlege: London and New York; hard cover edition 1994; paperback printings, 1995, 1997, 1998, 1999). I discovered in the course of my research for this book, and scholarly articles that I published on the subject of Japanese biological and chemical warfare preparations, that members of the Japanese Imperial Army Medical Corps committed heinous war crimes. These included involuntary laboratory tests of various pathogens on humans--Chinese, Korean, other Asian nationalities, and Allied prisoners of war, including Americans. Barbarous acts encompassed live vivisections, amputations of body parts (frequently without the use of anesthesia), frost bite exposure to temperatures of 40-50 degrees Fahrenheit below zero, injection of horse blood and other animal blood into humans, as well as other horrific experiments. When a test was completed, the human experimented was "sacrificed", the euphemism used by Japanese scientists as a substitute term for "killed."
In my capacity as an academic Historian, I can testify to the difficulty researchers have in unearthing documents and personal testimony concerning these war crimes. I, and other researchers, have been denied access to military archives in Japan. These archives cover activities by the Imperial Japanese Army that occurred more than 50 years ago. The documents in question cannot conceivably contain information that would be considered of importance to "National Security" today. The various governments in Japan for the past half century have kept these archives firmly closed. The fear is that the information contained in the archives will embarrass previous governments.
Here in the United States, despite the Freedom of Information Act, some archives remain closed to investigators. At best, the archivists in charge, or the Freedom of Information Officer at the archive in question, select what documents they will allow to become public. This is an unconscionable act of arrogance and a betrayal of the trust they have been given by the Congress and the
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President of the United States. Moreover, "sensitive" documents--as defined by archivists and FOIA officers--are at the moment being destroyed. Thus, historians and concerned citizens are being denied factual evidence that can shed some light on the terrible atrocities committed by Japanese militarists in the past.
Three examples of this wanton destruction should be sufficiently illustrative of the dangers that exist, and should reinforce the obvious necessity for prompt passage of legislation you propose to introduce into the Congress:
1. In 1991, the Librarian at Dugway Proving Grounds, Dugway, Utah, denied me access to the archives at the facility. It was only through the intervention of then U.S. Representative Wayne Owens, Dem., Utah, that I was given permission to visit the facility. I was not shown all the holdings relating to Japanese medical experiments, but the little I was permitted to examine revealed a great deal of information about medical war crimes. Sometimes after my visit, a person with intimate knowledge of Dugway's operations, informed me that "sensitive" documents were destroyed there as a direct result of my research in their library.
2. I conducted much of my American research at Fort Detrick in Frederick, Md. The Public Information Officer there was extremely helpful to me. Two weeks ago I telephoned Detrick, was informed that the PIO had retired last May. I spoke with the new PIO, who told me that Detrick no longer would discuss past research activities, but would disclose information only on current projects. Later that day I telephoned the retired PIO at his home. He informed me that upon retiring he was told to "get rid of that stuff", meaning incriminating documents relating to Japanese medical war crimes. Detrick no longer is a viable research center for historians.
3. Within the past 2 weeks, I was informed that the Pentagon, for "space reasons", decided to rid itself of all biological warfare documents in its holdings prior to 1949. The date is important, because all war crimes trials against accused Japanese war criminals were terminated by 1949. Thus, current Pentagon materials could not implicate alleged Japanese war criminals. Fortunately, a private research facility in Washington volunteered to retrieve the documents in question. This research facility now holds the documents, is currently cataloguing them (estimated completion time, at least twelve months), and is guarding the documents under "tight security."
Your proposed legislation must be acted upon promptly. Many of the victims of Japanese war crimes are elderly. Some of the victims pass away daily. Their suffering should receive recognition and some compensation. Moreover, History is being cheated. As documents disappear, the story of war crimes committed in the War In The Pacific becomes increasingly difficult to describe. The end result will be a distorted picture of reality. As an Historian, I cannot accept this inevitability without vigorous protest.
You see Russ, this stuff is all related.
It is all related through the cover-up that has allowed the perpetrators to go unpunished and even prosper while the victims have been forgotten and forced to live in agony.
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