Show that a normal subgroup <S> is equal to <T>

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Homework Help Overview

The discussion revolves around the properties of normal subgroups within group theory. The original poster presents a problem involving a subset S of a group G, where the task is to show that the subgroup generated by S is normal. Additionally, there is a question regarding the relationship between another subset T and the subgroup generated by S, specifically whether the normal subgroup generated by T is equal to the subgroup generated by the conjugate of T.

Discussion Character

  • Conceptual clarification, Assumption checking, Problem interpretation

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • Participants explore the implications of the normality condition for S and its relation to T. Some question the assumptions made about the subsets and their normality, while others discuss the definitions and properties of normal subgroups, particularly in relation to the generated subgroups.

Discussion Status

The discussion is ongoing, with participants providing insights into the definitions and properties of normal subgroups. Some have offered clarifications regarding the nature of the subsets and the implications of the normality condition, while others are questioning the validity of certain claims made about the relationships between S and T.

Contextual Notes

There are corrections and clarifications regarding the definitions of the subsets and the nature of the normal subgroup generated by T. The original poster and other participants are navigating through the implications of these definitions and the assumptions that may affect the conclusions drawn from them.

QIsReluctant
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Note: I only need help on the underlined portion of the problem, but I'm including all parts since they may provide relevant information. Thanks in advance.

1. Homework Statement

Let S be a subset of a group G such that g−1Sg ⊂ S for any g∈G. Show that the subgroup ⟨S⟩ generated by S is normal.
Let T be any subset of G and let S = g−1Tg. Show that ⟨S⟩ is the normal subgroup generated by T.

The Attempt at a Solution


I apply the first part of the problem to see that <S> is normal, and that is as far as I am getting. I know that <S> ⊇ <T> by the definitions, but since we have such little information about T I can't get much further. If the normal/"ordinary" subgroups containing S and T were the same then the conclusion would be obvious but the definition of G seems to preclude this.
 
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Let S be a subset of a group G such that g−1Sg ⊂ S for any g∈G. Show that the subgroup ⟨S⟩ generated by S is normal.

So ##S \subseteq G##, and ##g^{-1} S g \subset S, \forall g \in G##.

Did you mean ##S \subseteq G##, and ##g^{-1} S g = S, \forall g \in G##?

This would tell you ##S## is a normal subgroup of ##G## because the similarity transformation holds ##\forall g \in G##.

Let ##\left< S \right>## be the subgroup generated by ##S##. Then ##\left< S \right> \subseteq S \subseteq G, \forall g \in G## and ##\left< S \right>## is also a subgroup of ##G##. The similarity transformation of ##\left< S \right>## by some ##g \in G## that is not in ##\left< S \right>## will always give a subgroup of ##G##.

So all that would be left to show is ##g^{-1} \left< S \right> g = \left< S \right>, \forall g \in G##. You know every element in ##\left< S \right>## is contained in ##S## and ##S## is normal. So ##\left< S \right> \unlhd G##.
 
QIsReluctant said:
Let T be any subset of G and let S = g−1Tg. Show that ⟨S⟩ is the normal subgroup generated by T.

If by this, you mean that ##\langle gTg^{-1}\rangle=\langle{T}\rangle## for any subset of a group, then I dispute your claim.

Just consider a group ##G## where ##G'## is a subgroup of ##G## that is not normal (i.e., ##gG'g^{-1}\ne G##). Indeed, if the set ##\{g_1,\ldots,g_n\}## generate ##G'##, then their conjugates ##\{gg_1 g^{-1},\ldots,gg_{n}g^{-1}\}## obviously generate ##gG'g^{-1}##. This is a counter example to your claim that ##\langle gTg^{-1}\rangle=\langle T\rangle## for any subset of ##G##. So I'm not entirely sure what you're getting at with the underlined portion of your question.
 
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Correction!
Let S be a subset of a group G such that g−1Sg ⊂ S for any g∈G. Show that the subgroup ⟨S⟩ generated by S is normal.
Let T be any subset of G and let S = Ug ∈ Gg−1Tg. Show that ⟨S⟩ is the normal subgroup generated by T.
 
QIsReluctant said:
Correction!
Let S be a subset of a group G such that g−1Sg ⊂ S for any g∈G. Show that the subgroup ⟨S⟩ generated by S is normal.
Let T be any subset of G and let S = Ug ∈ Gg−1Tg. Show that ⟨S⟩ is the normal subgroup generated by T.

I think I misinterpreted your question the first time around. Do you mean by 'the normal subgroup generated by ##T##' the normal closure of ##T##? The normal closure of ##T## is the minimal normal subgroup containing ##T##.

If so, then let's claim that ##S'=\langle\bigcup_{g\in{G}}gTg^{-1}\rangle## is the minimal such group. Then, notice this means that ##S'=\bigcap\{N\colon N\unlhd G\text{ and }T\subseteq{N}\}##, which is to say, ##S'## is the intersection of all normal subgroups containing ##T##. That the intersection of all normal subgroups is the minimal such normal subgroup containing ##T## is clear, for if there were another, then it was in our intersection.

[As an exercise, show that the intersection of an arbitrary collection of normal subgroups of a group is normal]. Here's how I would go about this problem:

First, notice that our claim that ##S'## is the minimal such normal subgroup containing ##T## is true ##\iff## ##S'## is contained in every normal subgroup that contains ##T##, after all, ##S'## is a normal subgroup containing ##T##.

[Pf: ##(\implies)## If ##S'## is the minimal such normal subgroup, then ##S'## is in the intersection ##S''=\bigcap\{N\colon N\unlhd G\text{ and }T\subseteq{N}\}## as ##T\subseteq S'## and ##S'\unlhd G##; hence, ##S''\subseteq S'## (this is just a property of intersections). By the exercise above, ##S''\unlhd G## and since ##S'## is in this intersection, ##S''\unlhd S'##, but this contradicts the minimality assumption on ##S'##, so ##S''=S'##, and so ##S'## is contained in every member of the intersection. ##(\impliedby)## This is straight forward because ##T\subseteq S'##, ##S'\unlhd G## and ##S'## is contained in every member of the intersection of ##S''##.]

Therefore, it suffices to prove that ##S'## is contained in every normal subgroup that contains ##T##. Now it is straight forward. Do you see why?
 
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