Show that if f: A→B is surjective and and H is a subset of B, then f([

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Homework Help Overview

The discussion revolves around a proof involving a surjective function f: A→B and a subset H of B, specifically focusing on the relationship between f(f^(-1)(H)) and H. Participants are exploring the implications of surjectivity and the properties of inverse functions in this context.

Discussion Character

  • Conceptual clarification, Assumption checking, Exploratory

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • Participants discuss the implications of surjectivity on the elements of H and their relationship with the inverse function. There are attempts to establish that f(f^(-1)(H)) equals H by examining subsets and the definitions involved. Questions are raised about the validity of certain assumptions, particularly regarding the behavior of the inverse function in specific cases.

Discussion Status

The discussion is active, with participants providing insights and questioning the reasoning presented. Some participants express understanding while others highlight potential pitfalls in the reasoning, particularly concerning the nature of the inverse function when f is not injective.

Contextual Notes

There are concerns about the assumptions made regarding the inverse function, especially in cases where f may not behave as expected, such as when it is not one-to-one. Participants are encouraged to consider these nuances in their reasoning.

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[f]^{}[/2]

Homework Statement




Show that if f: A→B is surjective and and H is a subset of B, then f(f^(-1)(H)) = H.

Homework Equations





The Attempt at a Solution



Let y be an element of f(f^(-1)(H)).
Since f is surjective, there exists an element x in f^(-1)(H) such that f(x) = y.
But x in f^(-1)(H) implies that f(x) is in H, by definition of inverse functions.
Therefore f(f^(-1)(H)) is a subset of H.

Conversely, for y in H y must also be in f(f^(-1)(H)) since the latter expression is equivalent to H by definition
of inverse functions.

Since f(f^(-1)(H)) is a subset of H and vice versa, f(f^(-1)(H)) = H.
 
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Scienticious said:
[f]^{}[/2]

Let y be an element of f(f^(-1)(H)).
Since f is surjective, there exists an element x in f^(-1)(H) such that f(x) = y.
But x in f^(-1)(H) implies that f(x) is in H, by definition of inverse functions.
Therefore f(f^(-1)(H)) is a subset of H.

This part is good

Conversely, for y in H y must also be in f(f^(-1)(H)) since the latter expression is equivalent to H by definition
of inverse functions.

This part less so. What if f(x) = 0 for all x a real number, and H is the interval [0,1]? What is f(f-1(H)) in this case?

You have to use the fact that f is surjective.
 
O I understand now I think, thank you :3

f is surjective, so for any y in H we have f(x) = y.
since f^(-1)(H) is in the domain of f by definition of inverse functions,
y = f(f^(-1)(y)) for any y in H and thus H is a subset of f(f^(-1)(H)).

This line of reasoning checks out, right?
 
Consider using this type of argument: ##A \subseteq B \land A \supseteq B → A = B##.
 
Scienticious said:
O I understand now I think, thank you :3

f is surjective, so for any y in H we have f(x) = y.
since f^(-1)(H) is in the domain of f by definition of inverse functions,
y = f(f^(-1)(y)) for any y in H and thus H is a subset of f(f^(-1)(H)).

This line of reasoning checks out, right?
You need to be a bit more careful. Consider the case of f: ℝ→{0,∞} where f(x)=x2. The mapping ##f^{-1}## isn't a function, which you seem to be assuming. What would ##f^{-1}(4)## be equal to, for instance — 2 or -2?
 

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