Showing continuous function has min or max using Cauchy limit def.

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around proving that a continuous function \( f: \mathbb{R} \to \mathbb{R} \) attains a maximum or minimum value given the conditions on its limits as \( x \) approaches positive and negative infinity. The focus is on the application of limit definitions and the implications for the behavior of the function.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Mathematical reasoning
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant outlines a proof strategy for the case where \( l = \infty \) and discusses the implications of the limits on the function's values.
  • Another participant suggests that choosing \( N = \max\{R_1, -R_2\} \) is a valid approach and prompts further exploration of the implications of this choice.
  • A participant expresses uncertainty about how to conclude that \( f(x) > M \) for both cases of \( x > N \) and \( x < -N \), seeking clarification on the reasoning.
  • Clarifications are provided regarding the definitions of limits, emphasizing that the limit approaching positive infinity must consider all \( M > 0 \).
  • A participant proposes a definition for \( \lim_{x \to +\infty} f(x) = -\infty \) and seeks confirmation on its correctness, which is affirmed by another participant.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally agree on the validity of the limit definitions and the proposed proof strategies, but there are points of clarification and correction regarding the instantiation of variables and the conditions under which the limits apply. Some aspects of the discussion remain unresolved, particularly regarding the implications of the limit definitions in specific contexts.

Contextual Notes

Limitations include the need for careful consideration of the definitions of limits and the conditions under which they apply, particularly regarding the choice of \( N \) and the implications for the function's behavior at infinity.

CGandC
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Problem: Let ## f: \Bbb R \to \Bbb R ## be continuous. It is known that ## \lim_{x \to \infty } f(x) = \lim_{x \to -\infty } f(x) = l \in R \cup \{ \pm \infty \} ##. Prove that ## f ## gets maximum or minimum on ## \Bbb R ##.

Proof: First we'll regard the case ## l = \infty ## ( the case where ## l = -\infty ## is similar ). Denote ## | f(0) | = M ##. By the given there exists ## N>0 ## large enough s.t. for all ## |x| > N ## , ## f(x) > M \geq f(0) ##. [ The proof continues by using weierstrass theorem, finishes for the infinite case, and then it proves for the case where ## l ## is finite ]

My question: I was wondering about how they got to the phrase in red. I know they used the definitions for ## \lim_{x \to \infty } f(x) = \infty ## , ## \lim_{x \to -\infty } f(x) = \infty ## which are:
## \lim_{x \to \infty } f(x) = \infty \iff ## ## \forall M>0 .\exists R_1>0. \forall x \in (R_1,\infty). f(x) > M ##
## \lim_{x \to -\infty } f(x) = \infty \iff ## ## \forall M<0 .\exists R_2<0. \forall x \in (-\infty,R_2). f(x) > M##

What instantiation they used and how did they choose ## N ##? ( did they chose ## N := max \{ R_1 , |R_2| \} ## after instantiating a variable in the universal quantifiers? ) how from these two definitions I get to the phrase in red?

Thanks in advance for the help and advice!
 
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Yes, your choice should work. if you chose ##N = \max{\{R_1, -R_2\}}## and you assume ##|x| > N##, knowing that, by definition ##N > R_1##, ##N > -R_2## what can you say about ##x## and ##R_{1,2}##?
 
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I can say that ## x > N > R_1 ## or ## x< -N < R_2 ##.
If ## x > N > R_1 ## then ## f(x) > M ##
If ## x< -N < R_2 ## then ## f(x) > -|M| ##.

How do I get ## f(x) > M ## for both cases ( for ## x > N > R_1 ## or ## x< -N < R_2 ## )?
 
For ##x<-N \leq R_2## you still have f(x)>M. It's directly coming from the definition of the limit. The limit is positive infinity.
 
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CGandC said:
## \lim_{x \to -\infty } f(x) = \infty \iff ## ## \forall M<0 .\exists R_2<0. \forall x \in (-\infty,R_2). f(x) > M##

What instantiation they used and how did they choose ## N ##? ( did they chose ## N := max \{ R_1 , |R_2| \} ## after instantiating a variable in the universal quantifiers? ) how from these two definitions I get to the phrase in red?

Thanks in advance for the help and advice!
The above line is wrong. You have to say for all M>0 and the rest remains as it is. Don't forget, even though our independent variable x goes to minus infinity, the limit remains positive infinity so it has to be for all M>0.
 
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Thank you. With this correction things sit perfectly well!

I have one more question - Is the following definition for ## \lim\limits_{x \to +\infty} f(x) = -\infty ## correct?:
## \lim\limits_{x \to +\infty} f(x) = -\infty \iff \forall M<0 .\exists R>0. \forall x \in (R,\infty). f(x) < M ##
 
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Yes looks fine to me, now the limit is minus infinity so it should be for all ##M<0## (or alternatively M>0 but we require ##f(x)<-M##.
 
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Ok thanks for the help! that'd be all.
 
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