Showing equality of dimensions

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Homework Help Overview

The discussion revolves around the dimension of the rational vector space spanned by powers of a complex number α, specifically the space ℚ(α). The original poster seeks to show that if P(t) is a polynomial of degree n such that P(α) = 0, then the dimension of ℚ(α) is at most n.

Discussion Character

  • Conceptual clarification, Mathematical reasoning, Assumption checking

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • Participants explore the requirements for a set to be a basis, including spanning and linear independence. There is discussion about the relevance of the polynomial P(α) = 0 and its implications for linear independence. Some participants question the notation used for the vector space and whether it aligns with standard definitions.

Discussion Status

The discussion is ongoing, with participants providing feedback on each other's reasoning and questioning the assumptions made regarding the polynomial and the definitions of dimension and basis. There is no explicit consensus yet, but various interpretations and clarifications are being explored.

Contextual Notes

Participants note the potential need for the polynomial P to have rational coefficients and discuss the implications of the definitions of dimension and basis in the context of the problem.

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Homework Statement

[/B]
Let α ∈ ℂ be a complex number. Let V = ℚ(α) be the rational vector space spanned by powers of α. That is
ℚ(α) = <1,α,α2,...>.
1) If P(t) is a polynomial of degree n such that P(α) = 0, show that dimℚ(α) is at most n.

Homework Equations

The Attempt at a Solution



Here[/B] is my take on this question. Please give me some feedback/corrections.

Since ℚ(α) = <1,α,α2,...> we know that 1,α,α2,... span ℚ(α).
To show that dimℚ(α) is at most n, we must show that 1,α,α2,..,αn-1 is a basis of ℚ(α).
To show it is a basis,
i) 1,α,α2,..,αn-1 must span ℚ(α)
ii) 1,α,α2,..,αn-1 must be linearly independent.For span:I would say that since 1,α,... spans ℚ(α) then 1,α,...,αn-1 spans ℚ(α) because its elements are in the set 1,α,...

For linear independence: I was thinking of using induction but I'm not sure how I should go about it.

As for P(α) = 0 I am not quite sure what relevance it has. It tells us that
P(α) = a0 + a1α + a2α2 + . . . + an-1αn-1 = 0
Perhaps it helps showing linear independence since we want 1,α,...,αn-1 to be written as
a0 + a1α + a2α2 + . . . + an-1αn-1 = 0 where a0 = a1 = . . . = an-1 = 0
 
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said said:

Homework Statement

[/B]
Let α ∈ ℂ be a complex number. Let V = ℚ(α) be the rational vector space spanned by powers of α. That is
ℚ(α) = <1,α,α2,...>.
Is that last thing your notation for the space spanned by ##\{\alpha^n|n\in\mathbb N\}##? <x,y,z> usually denotes the ordered triple that most books write as (x,y,z), and since ordered n-tuples are finite sequences, my first instinct is to interpret your notation as representing a sequence, not a vector space or a subset of a vector space.

said said:
Since ℚ(α) = <1,α,α2,...> we know that 1,α,α2,... span ℚ(α).
We know that ##\{1,\alpha,\dots\}## is a spanning set for ##\mathbb Q(\alpha)## because ##\mathbb Q(\alpha)## is defined as the space spanned by ##\{1,\alpha,\dots\}##. So you don't need to provide an argument for it.

said said:
To show that dimℚ(α) is at most n, we must show that 1,α,α2,..,αn-1 is a basis of ℚ(α).
This may be unnecessary. It's sufficient to prove that ##\mathbb Q(\alpha)## doesn't contain a linearly independent subset of cardinality ##n+1##.

said said:
As for P(α) = 0 I am not quite sure what relevance it has.
Recall that a set ##\{x_1,\dots,x_r\}## with all the ##x_i## distinct is said to be linearly independent if the following implication holds for all scalars ##a_1,\dots,a_r##:
$$\sum_{i=1}^r a_i x_i=0\ \Rightarrow\ a_1=\dots=a_r=0.$$
Edit: Is there anything in the problem statement that specifies that the polynomial function P has rational coefficients? I think we need it to have only rational coefficients.
 
Last edited:
Fredrik said:
Is that last thing your notation for the space spanned by {αn|n∈N}\{\alpha^n|n\in\mathbb N\}? <x,y,z> usually denotes the ordered triple that most books write as (x,y,z), and since ordered n-tuples are finite sequences, my first instinct is to interpret your notation as representing a sequence, not a vector space or a subset of a vector space.
My professor uses the notation <1,α,α2,...> but yes it is a spanning set.

Fredrik said:
This may be unnecessary. It's sufficient to prove that Q(α)\mathbb Q(\alpha) doesn't contain a linearly independent subset of cardinality n+1n+1.
So, by proving this, does it automatically prove that the subset of cardinality n is linearly dependent? If yes then what theorem/definition says this?

Fredrik said:
Recall that a set {x1,…,xr}\{x_1,\dots,x_r\} with all the xix_i distinct is said to be linearly independent if the following implication holds for all scalars a1,…,ara_1,\dots,a_r:
∑i=1raixi=0 ⇒ a1=⋯=ar=0.​
But P(α) = 0 does not tell me anything about linear independence. Even though it is equal to zero, I do not know whether all of its coefficients are equal to zero.
 
said said:
So, by proving this, does it automatically prove that the subset of cardinality n is linearly dependent?
No, but that's not a problem here. To prove that the space is n-dimensional, you would have to prove that it has a linearly independent subset of cardinality n, and doesn't have a linearly independent subset of cardinality n+1. To prove that it's at most n-dimensional, you only need to prove that it doesn't have a linearly independent subset of cardinality n+1.

Note that what exactly you need to prove, or what theorems you need to use, depends on what exactly your definitions are. I like the definition of "dimension" that says that the dimension of a non-trivial vector space X is the largest integer n such that X contains a linearly independent set of cardinality n. If this is the definition used in the book, then it's sufficient to prove that there's no linearly independent subset of cardinality n+1. If the book uses the definition that says that the dimension of X is the cardinality of a basis for X, it's sufficient to prove that there's no basis for this vector space of cardinality n+1 (and since a basis is linearly independent, you can do this by proving that there's no linearly independent subset of cardinality n+1).

said said:
But P(α) = 0 does not tell me anything about linear independence. Even though it is equal to zero, I do not know whether all of its coefficients are equal to zero.
When n>0, you know that they're not all equal to zero, because if they were, we wouldn't say that the degree of P is n.
 

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