Showing relationship between zeta and gamma

  • Context: Undergrad 
  • Thread starter Thread starter howabout1337
  • Start date Start date
  • Tags Tags
    Gamma Relationship
Click For Summary

Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around demonstrating the relationship between the integral of an exponential function and the Gamma function, specifically exploring the equation ##\int_0^\infty e^{-nt}\,t^{x-1}\,dt=\Gamma(x)\,n^{-x}## for ##x \geq 1##. The scope includes mathematical reasoning and technical explanations related to the properties of the Gamma function and variable substitutions in integrals.

Discussion Character

  • Mathematical reasoning
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants suggest using the substitution ##t=n t'## to transform the integral, which leads to a discussion about the implications of this substitution.
  • There is a question regarding whether the variable ##t'## in the substitution is equivalent to ##dt/dx##, which is challenged by others who clarify that ##dt/dx## is not meaningful in this context.
  • Participants discuss the legitimacy of the substitution and whether it changes the equation, with some asserting that it does not affect the overall relationship being demonstrated.
  • One participant notes that the constant ##n## can be set to any positive value, but emphasizes that negative values would complicate the interpretation of the integral.
  • There is a query about whether defining ##t## in terms of other expressions related to ##n##, such as ##t=t'/n^2## or ##t=2t'/n##, would alter the equation, to which a participant responds that it does not change the representation but complicates it unnecessarily.
  • Some participants highlight that simplifying the expression by setting ##n=1## could be beneficial, while also noting the necessity for ##n## to be positive to avoid divergence in the integral.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the implications of variable substitutions and the role of the constant ##n##, indicating that there is no consensus on how these factors influence the equation being discussed.

Contextual Notes

Some limitations are noted regarding the assumptions about the positivity of ##n## and the potential for ambiguity if ##n## were negative, as well as the implications for the convergence of the integral.

howabout1337
Messages
30
Reaction score
0
How can I show that ##\int_0^\infty e^{-nt}\,t^{x-1}\,dt=\Gamma(x)\,n^{-x}\,## for ##x \geq 1\,##?
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Physics news on Phys.org
It would help if you included the equation ## \Gamma(x)=\int\limits_{0}^{+\infty} e^{-t} \, t^{x-1} \, dt ## that I found in Wikipedia. I think all you need to do is let ## t=n t' ##.
 
  • Like
Likes   Reactions: howabout1337, QuantumQuest and mfb
Charles Link said:
It would help if you included the equation ## \Gamma(x)=\int\limits_{0}^{+\infty} e^{-t} \, t^{x-1} \, dt ## that I found in Wikipedia. I think all you need to do is let ## t=n t' ##.
is the ##t'## in ##t=n t'## equivalent to ##dt/dx##?
 
howabout1337 said:
is the ##t'## in ##t=n t'## equivalent to ##dt/dx##?
With ## t=nt' ##, you have ## dt=n \, dt' ##. (The Wikipedia article actually had ## \Gamma(z) ##, and their integration was done over ## x ##, but changing the letters doesn't change the mathematics). For the case at hand, ##t ## is unrelated to ## x ##, and ## dt/dx ## really has no meaning. (Note also, once you substitute in ## t=nt' ##, you are completely free to change the ## t' ## back to the letter ## t ##).
 
Charles Link said:
With ## t=nt' ##, you have ## dt=n \, dt' ##. (The Wikipedia article actually had ## \Gamma(z) ##, and their integration was done over ## x ##, but changing the letters doesn't change the mathematics). For the case at hand, ##t ## is unrelated to ## x ##, and ## dt/dx ## really has no meaning. (Note also, once you substitute in ## t=nt' ##, you are completely free to change the ## t' ## back to the letter ## t ##).
I ran through it, I got the equation. Does letting ## t=nt' ## change the equation? Can I arbitrarily do this?
 
howabout1337 said:
I ran through it, I got the equation. Does letting ## t=nt' ## change the equation? Can I arbitrarily do this?
Basically you are showing that ## \Gamma(x)=n^x \, \int\limits_{0}^{+\infty} e^{-nt} \, t^{x-1} \, dt ##, and showing that the ## n ## that appears on the right side of this last equation has no effect on the equation. It turns out, you can set ## n ## equal to any number you want (Editing: It appears that ## n ## must be positive or you have an ## n^x ## that would be hard to define). ## n ## is a constant, but that's all you know about ## n ##. The substitution ## t=t'/n ## is completely legitimate, and then ## dt= dt' /n ##, and the limits of the integral are left unchanged. (The substitution is ## t=t'/n ## if you begin with this expression that contains ## n^x ##).
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Likes   Reactions: howabout1337
Charles Link said:
Basically you are showing that ## \Gamma(x)=n^x \, \int\limits_{0}^{+\infty} e^{-nt} \, t^{x-1} \, dt ##, and showing that the ## n ## that appears on the right side of this last equation has no effect on the equation. It turns out, you can set ## n ## equal to any number you want (Editing: It appears that ## n ## must be positive or you have an ## n^x ## that would be hard to define). ## n ## is a constant, but that's all you know about ## n ##. The substitution ## t=t'/n ## is completely legitimate, and then ## dt= dt' /n ##, and the limits of the integral are left unchanged. (The substitution is ## t=t'/n ## if you begin with this expression that contains ## n^x ##).

Does defining t as something else related to n such ## t=t'/n^2 ## or ## t=2t'/n ## for any purpose changes the equation in different ways?
 
howabout1337 said:
Does defining t as something else related to n such ## t=t'/n^2 ## or ## t=2t'/n ## for any purpose changes the equation in different ways?
The answer is no, it doesn't change what it represents, but it makes it unnecessarily more complicated. Even in the original form that you have, the ## n ## is unnecessary, and setting it equal to 1 simplifies the expression. ## \\ ## Editing: One other comment is that ## n ## needs to be positive for a second reason: (It was previously pointed out that ## n^x ## could become ambiguous if ## n ## were negative). A second reason is that ## e^{-nt} ## would be ## e^{+|n|t} ##, and the integral would diverge with the exponential becoming arbitrarily large.
 
Last edited:

Similar threads

  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
3K
  • · Replies 5 ·
Replies
5
Views
5K
  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
3K
  • · Replies 4 ·
Replies
4
Views
3K
  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
2K
  • · Replies 5 ·
Replies
5
Views
2K
  • · Replies 5 ·
Replies
5
Views
2K
  • · Replies 9 ·
Replies
9
Views
4K
  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
2K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
3K