Showing that an element is not in a field extension

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Homework Help Overview

The discussion revolves around showing that the cube root of 2 is not an element of the field extension K, defined as the smallest field containing the rational numbers and a set of square roots of rational numbers. Participants explore the implications of field degrees and algebraic extensions in this context.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory, Assumption checking, Mathematical reasoning

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • Participants consider using the degrees of field extensions to argue that the degree of K over the rationals does not allow for the inclusion of the cube root of 2. Some suggest proving by contradiction, while others propose an inductive approach to demonstrate the impossibility of expressing the cube root of 2 in terms of the elements of K.

Discussion Status

The discussion is active, with participants sharing various approaches and questioning the assumptions regarding the degrees of the field extensions. There is acknowledgment of the need to clarify the implications of these degrees in relation to the inclusion of the cube root of 2 in K.

Contextual Notes

Participants note the possibility that some square roots may already be rational or contained within other extensions, which could affect the degree calculations. There is also a query regarding the necessity of the degree of the cube root of 2 dividing the degree of K for inclusion to hold.

Mr Davis 97
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Homework Statement


Let ##K = \mathbb{Q} (1, a_1, a_2, \dots, a_n)##, which is the smallest field containing ##\mathbb{Q}## and ##a_1, a_2, \dots, a_n##, where each ##a_i## is the square root of a rational
number. Show that the cube root of 2 is not an element of K.

Homework Equations

The Attempt at a Solution


I need some pointers. I am thinking about making an argument with degrees. That is, looking at the degree of ##K## over ##\mathbb{Q}## and seeing how that relates to the degree of ##\mathbb{Q}(2^{1/3})## over ##\mathbb{Q}##, such as whether the latter is a divisor of the former.
 
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Mr Davis 97 said:

Homework Statement


Let ##K = \mathbb{Q} (1, a_1, a_2, \dots, a_n)##, which is the smallest field containing ##\mathbb{Q}## and ##a_1, a_2, \dots, a_n##, where each ##a_i## is the square root of a rational
number. Show that the cube root of 2 is not an element of K.

Homework Equations

The Attempt at a Solution


I need some pointers. I am thinking about making an argument with degrees. That is, looking at the degree of ##K## over ##\mathbb{Q}## and seeing how that relates to the degree of ##\mathbb{Q}(2^{1/3})## over ##\mathbb{Q}##, such as whether the latter is a divisor of the former.
Sounds good. Alternatively, by foot so to say, you could prove it by contradiction. Assume ##\sqrt[3]{2} \in \mathbb{Q}(a_1, \ldots ,a_n)##. This means, there is a polynomial ##f(x_1,\ldots , x_n) \in \mathbb{Q}[x_1,\ldots , x_n]## with ##f(a_1,\ldots , a_n)^3=2##. Now use the fact, that all powers of the ##a_i## are either ##0## or ##1##, even in ##f^3##, and deduce the contradiction.
 
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fresh_42 said:
Sounds good. Alternatively, by foot so to say, you could prove it by contradiction. Assume ##\sqrt[3]{2} \in \mathbb{Q}(a_1, \ldots ,a_n)##. This means, there is a polynomial ##f(x_1,\ldots , x_n) \in \mathbb{Q}[x_1,\ldots , x_n]## with ##f(a_1,\ldots , a_n)^3=2##. Now use the fact, that all powers of the ##a_i## are either ##0## or ##1##, even in ##f^3##, and deduce the contradiction.
So just to be clear, is it correct to say that ##[\mathbb{Q}(a_1, \dots ,a_n) : \mathbb{Q}] = [\mathbb{Q}(a_1, \dots ,a_n) : \mathbb{Q}(a_1, \dots ,a_{n-1})] \cdots [\mathbb{Q}(a_1) : \mathbb{Q}] = 2^n##, while ##[\mathbb{Q}(2^{1/3}) : \mathbb{Q}] = 3##, and since the latter does not divide the former, ##2^{1/3} \not\in \mathbb{Q}(a_1, \dots ,a_n)##?

Note that ##[\mathbb{Q}(a_1, \dots ,a_n) : \mathbb{Q}]## denotes the degree of ##\mathbb{Q}(a_1, \dots ,a_n)## over ## \mathbb{Q}##
 
Mr Davis 97 said:
So just to be clear, is it correct to say that ##[\mathbb{Q}(a_1, \dots ,a_n) : \mathbb{Q}] = [\mathbb{Q}(a_1, \dots ,a_n) : \mathbb{Q}(a_1, \dots ,a_{n-1})] \cdots [\mathbb{Q}(a_1) : \mathbb{Q}] = 2^n##, while ##[\mathbb{Q}(2^{1/3}) : \mathbb{Q}] = 3##, and since the latter does not divide the former, ##2^{1/3} \not\in \mathbb{Q}(a_1, \dots ,a_n)##?

Note that ##[\mathbb{Q}(a_1, \dots ,a_n) : \mathbb{Q}]## denotes the degree of ##\mathbb{Q}(a_1, \dots ,a_n)## over ## \mathbb{Q}##
Yes. Only a minor thought: If some ##\sqrt{a_i}## happen to be a rational itself or already contained in other ##\mathbb{Q}(a_i)##, which you haven't excluded, then the degree is only ##2^m < 2^n##. It doesn't change the argument, but it is a possibility.

Btw.: This is basically the reason, why one cannot construct the third of an angle only by compass and ruler.
 
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fresh_42 said:
Yes. Only a minor thought: If some ##\sqrt{a_i}## happen to be a rational itself or already contained in other ##\mathbb{Q}(a_i)##, which you haven't excluded, then the degree is only ##2^m < 2^n##. It doesn't change the argument, but it is a possibility.

Btw.: This is basically the reason, why one cannot construct the third of an angle only by compass and ruler.
Also, one last thing. Why must ##[\mathbb{Q}(2^{1/3}) : \mathbb{Q}]## divide ##[\mathbb{Q}(a_1, \dots ,a_n) : \mathbb{Q}]## in order for ##2^{1/3} \in \mathbb{Q}(a_1, \dots ,a_n)##? I want to make sure I have my reasons right
 
For a tower of algebraic extensions ##\mathbb{Q} \subseteq \mathbb{Q}(\sqrt[3]{2}) \subseteq \mathbb{Q}(a_1,\ldots ,a_n)## we have
$$
2^m = [\,\mathbb{Q}(a_1,\ldots ,a_n)\, : \, \mathbb{Q}\,] = [\,\mathbb{Q}(a_1,\ldots ,a_n)\, : \,\mathbb{Q}(\sqrt[3]{2})\,]\,\cdot \,[\,\mathbb{Q}(\sqrt[3]{2})\, : \,\mathbb{Q}\,]\\
= [\,\mathbb{Q}(a_1,\ldots ,a_n)\, : \,\mathbb{Q}(\sqrt[3]{2})\,]\,\cdot \,3
$$
(https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Degree_of_a_field_extension#The_multiplicativity_formula_for_degrees)
which is impossible. If you may not or don't want to use this, then you'll have to do the work (I think):

An induction should work and is somehow clearer to work with, than to deal with all ##a_i## in one step.
Just write ##\sqrt[3]{2} = r_0 + r_1a_1## and show that this is impossible. All powers of ##a_1## greater than ##1## can be reduced, because ##a_1^2=r\in \mathbb{Q}##.
 
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