Sign of Frictional Torque in Pulley Equation

  • Thread starter Thread starter hitemup
  • Start date Start date
  • Tags Tags
    Sign Torque
Click For Summary

Homework Help Overview

The problem involves a pulley system with two different masses and seeks to determine the average frictional torque acting on the pulley. The context includes concepts from dynamics and rotational motion, particularly focusing on the effects of friction in a pulley system.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory, Assumption checking, Problem interpretation

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • Participants discuss the direction of rotation of the pulley based on the positions of the masses and their movements. There is confusion regarding the sign of the frictional torque in the equations used to describe the system.

Discussion Status

The discussion is ongoing, with participants exploring different interpretations of the problem setup and the implications of their assumptions on the equations. Some guidance has been offered regarding the signs in the equations, but no consensus has been reached on the correct approach to the frictional torque.

Contextual Notes

There are uncertainties regarding the initial conditions and the definitions of positive and negative directions in the context of the pulley’s rotation and the forces acting on the masses.

hitemup
Messages
81
Reaction score
2

Homework Statement



A string passing over a pulley has a 3.80 kg mass hanging from one end and a 3.15 kg mass hanging from the other end. The pulley is a uniform solid cylinder of radius 0.04 m and mass 0.80 kg.
It is found that if the heavier mass is give a downward speed of 0.20 m/s, it comes to rest in 6.2 s. What is the average frictional torque acting on the pulley?

Homework Equations



T = F*r
F = ma
T = I* alpha

The Attempt at a Solution



Newton's second law for masses:

FTA - mag= ma*a (the heavier one)
mb*g -FTB = mb*a

For the pulley:

FTB*rpulley(ccw-positive) - FTA*rpulley(cw-negative) + (+-_____ )= I*alpha

The pulley is rotating ccw, so I thought I had to write minus friction because the friction must be opposite of rotation direction, but then saw this and got really confused.
https://www.physicsforums.com/threa...que-acting-on-the-pulley.232961/#post-1716480

Determining the sign of frictional torque in this equation, should it be positive or negative?
 
Physics news on Phys.org
Assuming the heavier mass is on the right and the lighter on the left, and given that the heavier one is pushed down and accelerates up, which way is the pulley rotating before it stops?
 
PhanthomJay said:
Assuming the heavier mass is on the right and the lighter on the left, and given that the heavier one is pushed down and accelerates up, which way is the pulley rotating before it stops?

I think no matter what the acceleration is, for your question, it rotates clockwise as long as the heavy mass has that downward velocity. (until v = 0)
In my calculations, I assumed that the heavy mass was on the left.
 
Last edited:
Heavy on left moving down implies ccw pulley rotation ...yes , no , maybe? Watch signage it is not easy.
 
PhanthomJay said:
Heavy on left moving down implies ccw pulley rotation ...yes , no , maybe? Watch signage it is not easy.
Heavy on left (F_T1) and let ccw be positive
(FT1-FT2)*r - Tfrictional = I* alpha

Since rotation and acceleration are in different directions for the pulley, I should've written minus I*alpha for my setup, right?
 
Yes. So for clarity, your last equation using A and B instead of 1 and 2 is?
 

Similar threads

  • · Replies 21 ·
Replies
21
Views
2K
  • · Replies 10 ·
Replies
10
Views
5K
  • · Replies 30 ·
2
Replies
30
Views
4K
  • · Replies 10 ·
Replies
10
Views
3K
  • · Replies 13 ·
Replies
13
Views
8K
  • · Replies 6 ·
Replies
6
Views
3K
  • · Replies 9 ·
Replies
9
Views
2K
  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
2K
  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
2K
Replies
4
Views
2K