Simple explanation for cross section ratio

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers around the cross-section ratio for the reactions $$pp \to \pi^+ d$$ and $$np \to \pi^0 d$$, specifically exploring a simplified explanation using physics arguments rather than detailed mathematical calculations. The focus is on isospin symmetry and its implications for these scattering processes.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory, Technical explanation, Conceptual clarification

Main Points Raised

  • One participant requests a simple explanation for the cross-section ratio without heavy mathematical derivation.
  • Another participant suggests that while a mathematical approach is minimal, some knowledge of isospin symmetry and SU(2) group representations is necessary.
  • A further contribution outlines that the two scattering processes are nearly identical, differing only in the exchange of particles, leading to a proposed relationship between their cross-sections based on amplitudes and isospin symmetry.
  • The participant provides a mathematical framework for the amplitudes involved in the reactions, indicating how the ratio of cross-sections can be derived from the inner products of states defined by isospin quantum numbers.
  • Specific isospin states for protons, neutrons, pions, and deuterons are presented, suggesting that the computation of the ratio leads to the value of 2.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants do not reach a consensus on whether the explanation meets the request for simplicity, as there are differing views on the necessity of mathematical knowledge for understanding the concepts involved.

Contextual Notes

The discussion highlights the dependence on isospin symmetry and the representations of SU(2), which may not be universally understood without prior knowledge. The steps leading to the ratio are not fully resolved, leaving some assumptions and mathematical details implicit.

kelly0303
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Hello! Is there any simple (i.e. using some physics arguments, without actually doing the math) explanation for why $$\sigma(pp \to \pi^+d)/\sigma(np\to\pi^0d)=2$$ where d is the deuteron? Thank you!
 
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Well, what do you mean with "no math" there is a way to deduce using isospin symmetry and little assumptions. If you compare the amount of math of this method compared with the actual computation of a cross-section, this is almost without maths, but you still need some mathematical knowledge of the representations of SU(2) group. Is that what you want?
 
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Gaussian97 said:
Well, what do you mean with "no math" there is a way to deduce using isospin symmetry and little assumptions. If you compare the amount of math of this method compared with the actual computation of a cross-section, this is almost without maths, but you still need some mathematical knowledge of the representations of SU(2) group. Is that what you want?
Thank you! yes, i would like something like that, based on some symmetries, rather than actually blindly calculating some feynman diagrams.
 
Well, then the idea is:
Because the two scatterings are almost identical (they only differ in the exchange of ##p\leftrightarrow n## and ##\pi^0 \leftrightarrow \pi^+##), then we expect that the cross-sections will be like
$$\sigma(pp\rightarrow \pi^+ d) = \sigma_0 |\mathscr{M_{pp}}|^2$$
$$\sigma(pn\rightarrow \pi^0 d) = \sigma_0 |\mathscr{M_{pn}}|^2$$
with ##\sigma_0## the same constant for both processes. Also, the amplitude will be ##\mathscr{M}_{i\rightarrow f}= \left<f\right|T\left|i\right>##. Again, if isospin is a symmetry we expect
$$\mathscr{M}_{pp\rightarrow \pi^+ d} = \mathscr{M}_0 \left<\pi^+ d\right.\left|pp\right>$$
$$\mathscr{M}_{pn\rightarrow \pi^0 d} = \mathscr{M}_0 \left<\pi^0 d\right.\left|pn\right>$$
So, the ratio between the two cross-sections will be simply
$$\frac{\sigma(pp\rightarrow \pi^+ d)}{\sigma(pn\rightarrow \pi^0 d)}=\left|\frac{\left<\pi^+ d\right.\left|pp\right>}{\left<\pi^0 d\right.\left|pn\right>}\right|^2$$.

Then, using that
$$\left|p\right>=\left|I=\frac{1}{2}, I_3 =\frac{1}{2} \right>$$
$$\left|n\right>=\left|I=\frac{1}{2}, I_3 =-\frac{1}{2} \right>$$
$$\left|\pi^+\right>=\left|I=1, I_3 =1 \right>$$
$$\left|\pi^0\right>=\left|I=1, I_3 =0 \right>$$
$$\left|d\right>=\left|I=0, I_3 =0 \right>$$
I let you compute the ##2##
 
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