Simplified modeling of teledeltos paper

  • Thread starter Thread starter tempneff
  • Start date Start date
  • Tags Tags
    Modeling Paper
Click For Summary

Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around modeling the electrical properties of teledeltos paper in a physics simulation, particularly in the context of an equipotential mapping experiment. Participants explore the relationship between voltage and electric field, assumptions regarding material properties, and simulation techniques.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • One participant seeks to understand how voltage across teledeltos paper relates to the electric field, considering assumptions about sheet resistance and resistivity.
  • Another participant suggests that the material should be described as resistive rather than semiconductive and discusses the implications of simulating finite versus infinite sheets.
  • There is a proposal to use either a Cartesian grid or a curved orthogonal grid for the simulation, with each cell representing voltage and current characteristics.
  • Several references to textbooks and resources are provided for further reading on electromagnetic fields and numerical procedures for simulations.
  • A participant reflects on the assumption of the paper being lossless and notes that the charge distribution aligns with the electric field created by electrodes in a specific case.
  • One participant clarifies that the simulation is intended for low fidelity use by university undergraduates.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the material properties of teledeltos paper and the appropriate modeling techniques. There is no consensus on the best approach or assumptions to use in the simulation.

Contextual Notes

Participants mention various assumptions regarding the material's behavior, such as losslessness and charge distribution, which may affect the accuracy of the simulation. The discussion also highlights the complexity of choosing the right grid for numerical modeling.

Who May Find This Useful

This discussion may be useful for students and educators interested in physics simulations, particularly those focusing on electric fields and equipotential mapping experiments.

tempneff
Messages
82
Reaction score
3
TL;DR
Trying to understand the assumptions behind the use of teledeltos paper to map electric fields
I'm writing a physics simulation to mimic the old equipotential mapping experiment like this one. I can't find much information on how the voltage across this semi-conducting sheet relates to the E-field. Before I start heading down the path sheet resistance and the resistivity of thin-film carbon, I thought I'd ask here.

What are the assumptions that I can make to represent the electrical field lines as voltages across teledeltos paper given a known source voltage and physical dimensions?
 
Engineering news on Phys.org
I believe the material is best described as resistive, not semiconductive.
You can assume that perfect conductors are equipotential boundary conditions.

You must decide if you are simulating a finite rectangular sheet, with infinite external resistance, or if you are simulating an infinite virtual sheet.

Will you employ a cartesian grid or a curved orthogonal grid.
Each cell will have a voltage, current magnitude and direction, giving 2D voltage gradient.

Do you have a text that demonstrates the numerical procedure on a cartesian grid ?
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Likes   Reactions: tempneff
Start here; Electromagnetics, by Kraus and Carver. See section 3.22
There is a copy here; https://www.qsl.net/va3iul/Files/Old_Radio_Frequency_Books.htm

For mapping electric fields, this book is well worth finding;
Analysis and Computation of Electric and Magnetic Field Problems. Second Edition. 1973.
By K. J. Binns and P. J. Lawrenson. Publisher; Pergamon Press.
ISBN 0-08-016638-5

Also;
Title; Electric Field Analysis. 2015.
By; Sivaji Chakravorti. Publisher; CRC Press.
ISBN-13: 978-1-4822-3337-7 (eBook - PDF)

ebooks or files.pdf can be found.
 
  • Like
Likes   Reactions: tempneff
Thanks @Baluncore, that is the oldest pdf I've seen in some time! I think my initial approach was complicating an easy problem. The lab assumes that the paper is lossless and that the charge distribution matches the electric field created by the electrodes. For the Point-source case (circular electrodes; simulated map voltages, real map voltages, and a simple kq/r calculation all agree. Why? That I'm not sure of.
 
I should have mentioned, that this is a low fidelity simulation for university undergraduates to play with online.
 

Similar threads

Replies
1
Views
3K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
679
  • · Replies 16 ·
Replies
16
Views
4K
  • · Replies 16 ·
Replies
16
Views
5K
Replies
7
Views
5K
Replies
3
Views
2K
Replies
2
Views
4K
  • · Replies 17 ·
Replies
17
Views
4K
  • · Replies 6 ·
Replies
6
Views
3K
  • · Replies 27 ·
Replies
27
Views
2K