Sin wave Maximun/minimum finding?

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    Sin Wave
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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around determining whether specific points on a sine wave correspond to maximum or minimum values. Participants explore various methods for identifying these points without directly evaluating the sine function at those points, focusing on concepts from calculus and graphical interpretation.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory, Technical explanation, Conceptual clarification, Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant suggests that to find maxima or minima of a sine wave, one could use calculus, specifically the first and second derivatives, to identify critical points.
  • Another participant provides a sequence of x values and claims that certain points correspond to maxima or minima, but does not clarify how to determine this without knowing the y values.
  • There is a repeated emphasis on the idea of finding the area bounded by the curve as a potential method to infer whether a point is a maximum or minimum.
  • Some participants express confusion about the relationship between the x values and the sine function's behavior, questioning how to ascertain maxima or minima without evaluating the sine function directly.
  • One participant mentions that if sin(1) and sin(2) are maxima, then sin(n) could be considered a maximum for all n, but this assertion is met with skepticism regarding its relevance to the original question.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants do not reach a consensus on how to determine maxima or minima without evaluating the sine function. There are competing views on the effectiveness of using calculus versus graphical interpretation, and some participants express confusion about the implications of their claims.

Contextual Notes

There are limitations in the discussion regarding the assumptions made about the sine function's periodicity and the specific values of x being considered. The relationship between the plotted points and the sine wave's behavior remains unclear.

pjunky
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For different values of x in positive increasing order,sin wave would be either
Max or Min, so I plotted all points.how to find out whether wave is max or min
at a given particular point from X.
Thanks.
 
Last edited:
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Can you describe the problem a bit better? It sounds like you have a sequence of values and some sort of sine function (Asin(w*t+b) as a function of t, A, b and w unknown) and want to know if you've hit a maximum. If that's what you're looking for, you can't do it
 
pjunky said:
For different values of x in positive increasing order,sin wave would be either
Max or Min, so I plotted all points.how to find out whether wave is max or min
at a given particular point from X.
Thanks.

Well if you're thinking in terms of calculus, you don't need to graph this.

A function will have a relative maximum or minimum when its derivative is equal to zero (or at the endpoints of a piece of the function you're observing), and you can determine whether its a maximum or minimum by finding when its second derivative is equal to zero. When the second derivative is positive, the graph is concave up, and vice versa. A local maximum happens when you have the first derivative set to zero and the second derivative is negative. A local minimum happens when the first derivative is set to zero and the second derivative is positive. Beware, though, this is a general rule of thumb; there can be instances where the graph does not change concavity, or when a local minimum or maximum can be at the endpoint of such a piece of a function that you're looking at.
 
for Sin(0) wave is minimum,
for Sin(90) wave is maximum,
total:1,2,3,4,5,6,7...n-3,n-2,n-1,n
for Example assume at
1------->Max at x=1 ,y is max
2-------->Min at x=2,y is min
3------->Max
4------->min
5------->min
6------->min
.
.
.
n-1----->max at x=n-1,y is max
n------->min at x=n ,y is min


with out knowing y value,just with the help of 1,2,3,4...n how to know at a 3 or 4 or n-1
Y is max or min.


I got this clues,finding the 'area' bounded by the curve and with provided 1,2,3
finding out y is max or min at asked point.

please help me:rolleyes:,
Thanks.
 
Last edited:
pjunky said:
for Sin(0) wave is minimum,
for Sin(90) wave is maximum,
total:1,2,3,4,5,6,7...n-3,n-2,n-1,n
for Example assume at
1------->Max at x=1 ,y is max
2-------->Min at x=2,y is min
3------->Max
4------->min
5------->min
6------->min
.
.
.
n-1----->max at x=n-1,y is max
n------->min at x=n ,y is min


with out knowing y value,just with the help of 1,2,3,4...n how to know at a 3 or 4 or n-1
Y is max or min.


I got this clues,finding the 'area' bounded by the curve and with provided 1,2,3
finding out y is max or min at asked point.

please help me:rolleyes:,
Thanks.


More clearly it would be like this

x=1,2,3,4,5,6,...n-2,n-1,n
for example
at x=1 sine wave is Maximum
at x=2 sine wave is Maximum
at x=3 sine wave is Min
at x=4 sine wave is Min
at x=5 sine wave is Maximum
at x=6 sine wave is Min
at x=7 sine wave is Maximum
at x=8 sine wave is Min
at x=9 sine wave is Min
at x=10 sine wave is Min
.
.
.
.
at x=n-1 sine wave is Min
at x=n sine wave is Max.

----------------------------------------------------------------
I mapped all the points,
so for x=1,how to find out wave is Max or Min
with out knowledge of wave.

----------------------------------------------------------------
I'm thinking like this finding out area bounded
by curve,and x values are given,so with the help
of 'area' and x values,I think I can find out y values(Max or Min)

Thanks.
 
If sin(1) and sin(2) are maxima, then sin(n) is a maximum for all n, as 1 is necessarily a period. I'm not sure what you're trying to get at
 
Office_Shredder said:
If sin(1) and sin(2) are maxima, then sin(n) is a maximum for all n, as 1 is necessarily a period. I'm not sure what you're trying to get at

not like that you are taking sin(1),sin(2)...sin(n) as max

Just imagine x values in I quadrant in the graph.
now y values i.e sin wave values are mapped as min or max.

now have to find out at x=3 wave is max or min without reading the wave.
:confused:
 

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