Small scale entropy and information loss

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SUMMARY

The discussion centers on the implications of the second law of thermodynamics, particularly regarding entropy and information loss during particle collisions. The user references Professor Susskind's definition of entropy as a measure of hidden information and explores the conservation of momentum in collisions involving particles such as electrons and photons. The key conclusion is that while momentum is conserved, the specific information about the initial momenta (p1 and p2) becomes hidden post-collision, leading to an increase in entropy despite the apparent conservation of information quantity.

PREREQUISITES
  • Understanding of the second law of thermodynamics
  • Familiarity with momentum conservation in physics
  • Knowledge of classical mechanics, particularly particle collisions
  • Basic concepts of entropy and information theory
NEXT STEPS
  • Study the implications of Loschmidt's paradox in thermodynamics
  • Explore Professor Susskind's lectures on entropy and information
  • Research the relationship between entropy and information theory
  • Investigate time reversal symmetry in classical mechanics
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Physicists, students of thermodynamics, and anyone interested in the relationship between entropy, information, and particle physics will benefit from this discussion.

anorlunda
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I'm struggling to understand the implications and origins of the 2nd law.

Entropy is such a slippery subject. Wikipedia has many many definitions of entropy. I've been studying Professor Susskind physics lectures, so I'm most interested in his favorite definition: that information is conserved but entropy is a measure of hidden information. I also know that entropy is only supposed to be a macro concept, but I can't help thinking about it on the micro level.

Suppose we have two particles that come together and merge. Particle 1 with momentum p1 and particle 2 with momentum p2. After collision the product is particle 3 with momentum p3 and particle 4 with momentum p4. It should work with any particles, but I'm thinking of electrons and photons.

Let us say that the collision conserves mass, energy and momentum, but I'll only consider momentum.

Conservation of momentum gives us the vector equation (p3+p4)=(p1+p2). p3 and p4 are observable. However, there are an infinite number of values of p1 and p2 that satisfy (p3+p4)=(p1+p2). The information of which specific p1 and p2 we started with is lost, or at least hidden. Right?

Does the entropy of this system increase because of the collision? On one hand, the quantity of information seems the same. i.e. the values of p1 and p2 pre-collision versus the values of p3 and p4 post-collision. However, the specific values of both p1 and p2 can not be observed post collision. In other words, the number of bits needed to describe the momenta seems conserved, but the message encoded by the pre-collision bits is destroyed.

The next logical step is to consider time reversal symmetry and reversibility of the 2nd law, which led me to Loschmidt's paradox. I confess the the explanations in that article are beyond my understanding, so I'll limit my question.

Is this way of thinking about particles, information and entropy valid?
 
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In general, that classical (!) collision of point-like particles (!) will conserve the information content. Afterwards, you don't know p1 and p2 - but before, you don't know p3 and p4, so you have the same amount of knowledge.
 

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