Snog, Marry, Avoid: Male Makeover in UK Reality Show

[Proton Soup]

See the derision of Proton Soup and Cyrus is exactly my point. It is clearly originating from the thought that you think they think they're better than you. So you clamp down on it and ridicule it (How dare they with there stupid clothes, freaks!). To me this attitude is justs loosely veiled philistinism and only a hop skip and a jump away from the sort of "get the queer" mob mentality you still see kicking around. Or the idiotic notion that someone has a "problem" with their gender identity (it's you who has the problem, not them).

lol, it is true that i do find some amusement here. so what? it seems to make him happy and it's no skin off my nose. maybe he can even make a career out of it. good for him.

however, i do not think they think they're better than me. nor do i understand what makes you think that. I've never been one to "get the queer", either. if anything, i was more on the other side growing up as an underweight "band fag" who didn't get into team sports and studied way too much.

i think you're just humourless. the guy's fashion sense is gawdy, even for a gay man, but that is part of his schtick, i think.

 

[Cyrus]

What would be your prescribed dress code for daily wear herr fuhrer?

http://germanmilitariacollectibles.com/blog/uploaded_images/img128-735172.jpg

 

[DaveC426913]

There is a time and a place to dress like that. Every day in public is not one.

Why?

 

[Cyrus]

Why?

You want to play again Dave?

There is something called social norms. But, he does look like a fool in his white booty shorts and pink shoes with bright makeup. You can snog him if you like though. I won't tell.

 

[Evo]

Why?

Because someone might choke to death laughing while trying to swallow their food? I can imagine him walking into a restaurant...

 

[Ivan Seeking]

Why?

Because he looks like a freak?

[didn't my dad say that about long hair?]

 

[maverick_starstrider]

I can't imagine how an intelligent person could use a term like freak with any seriousness. This is a physics board for christ's-sake. I don't know if you were informed but the general public has some pretty negative stereotypes about you. Awfully nice of you to play along though.

 

[Cyrus]

I can't imagine how an intelligent person could use a term like freak with any seriousness. This is a physics board for christ's-sake. I don't know if you were informed but the general public has some pretty negative stereotypes about you. Awfully nice of you to play along though.

Life is full of surprises. Welcome to the real world. You're so open minded your let your brain fall out in the process.

In the meanwhile, I'll say what I think: he looks like a fool. He might be a nice kid, but he looks like an idiot.

 

[maverick_starstrider]

Life is full of surprises. Welcome to the real world. You're so open minded your let your brain fall out in the process.

In the meanwhile, I'll say what I think: he looks like a fool. He might be a nice kid, but he looks like an idiot.

Yes but I'd like to hear your justification of this as anything other then asinine prejudice.

 

[Evo]

I can't imagine how an intelligent person could use a term like freak with any seriousness. This is a physics board for christ's-sake. I don't know if you were informed but the general public has some pretty negative stereotypes about you. Awfully nice of you to play along though.

It depends on your use of the word freak. Ivan and I are roughly the same age. When I was in my teens, we called ourselves freaks. It meant we were non-conformists. It meant we didn't fit into normal society, "outside of socially acceptable norms' would be a good definition. We did not expect to be accepted. As I am sure that this kid does not expect to be accepted as normal. Some people want to shock people. They want to be considered "freaks".

 

[Cyrus]

Hey, why'd you delete my comment? It was going somewhere and I was going to make a point with it

 

[maverick_starstrider]

It depends on your use of the word freak. Ivan and I are roughly the same age. When I was in my teens, we called ourselves freaks. It meant we were non-conformists. It meant we didn't fit into normal society, "outside of socially acceptable norms' would be a good definition. We did not expect to be accepted. As I am sure that this kid does not expect to be accepted as normal. Some people want to shock people. They want to be considered "freaks".

And now you're old and insipid? Is that your point?

 

[Cyrus]

Yes but I'd like to hear your justification of this as anything other then asinine prejudice.

When you go around town wearing what he wears, I'll give your argument the time of day. Otherwise, you're nothing more than a hypocrite pandering to peoples feelings.

 

[DaveC426913]

In the meanwhile, I'll say what I think: he looks like a fool. He might be a nice kid, but he looks like an idiot.

To one person (and counting). What is wrong with him looking like a freak to one person (and counting)?

Clearly, the impression he is sending does not escape him, so what exactly is the problem with him doing it every day in public? Who makes this call?

 

[Cyrus]

To one person (and counting). What is wrong with him looking like a freak to one person (and counting)?

Clearly, the impression he is sending does not escape him, so what exactly is the problem with him doing it every day in public? Who makes this call?

I said he looks stupid. I base this on my stylistic taste. Again, he's free to look stupid in public every day if he wants to. That's his choice. That doesn't mean I won't think he looks stupid though.

BTW: I think you'd look great in white booty shorts and eye makeup Dave. Post pictures. Don't be shy, you're ok with it so you should have no problems doing this.

 

[TheStatutoryApe]

See the derision of Proton Soup and Cyrus is exactly my point. It is clearly originating from the thought that you think they think they're better than you. So you clamp down on it and ridicule it (How dare they with there stupid clothes, freaks!). To me this attitude is justs loosely veiled philistinism and only a hop skip and a jump away from the sort of "get the queer" mob mentality you still see kicking around. Or the idiotic notion that someone has a "problem" with their gender identity (it's you who has the problem, not them).

Aside from here I also am a member of two alternative subculture sites. I used to dress like a weirdo and have hung out with people who still do. Most of us that have gotten older have started dressing 'normally' or in a toned down fashion. The owner of one of the sites I mentioned you can still see out at industrial clubs, usually dressed in plain military surplus gear, but you may also possibly see her on CSPAN on occasion in a dress suit addressing congressional committees. When we see people like that guy and his counterparts in other subcultural styles we smirk and shake our heads at how silly we used to be.

 

[Evo]

And now you're old and insipid? Is that your point?

Explain how you come to that conclusion from what I said. I'm serious, POST your explanation before you post again. My point is that the term was quite common in the late 60's and early seventies and I'm sure you have no idea that the term has a different meaning to someone that lived through that era.

 

[Evo]

To one person (and counting). What is wrong with him looking like a freak to one person (and counting)?

Clearly, the impression he is sending does not escape him, so what exactly is the problem with him doing it every day in public? Who makes this call?

A lot of restaurants and nightculbs would not let him in because he violates their dress code, that would be people that can make that call.

 

[Cyrus]

Dave should take me to an $800 restaurant dressed like the kid in the video and pay for the meal. Then I'll agree with him.

 

[Pythagorean]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=awi14wDTxNw

sorry, couldn't resist...

 

[maverick_starstrider]

Explain how you come to that conclusion from what I said. I'm serious, POST your explanation before you post again. My point is that the term was quite common in the late 60's and early seventies and I'm sure you have no idea that the term has a different meaning to someone that lived through that era.

Because your anecdote was a lame attempt to basically say "hey, I'm cool and down with it and used to be edgy and therefore my opinions and prejudices should have special weight". Back in the 60's we had the real freaks. This isn't the first time you've tried to pull the "well when I was a kid..." card as if that has any relevance.

 

[maverick_starstrider]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=awi14wDTxNw

sorry, couldn't resist...

...someone already posted that but ok... still a good song.

 

[Cyrus]

Answering your deleted question, are you Elton John's Incarnate?

I see a lot of dancing around the issue here on your part. Do you, or would you, go around town dressed like that kid in the video, honestly?

 

[Evo]

I have no idea why that was deleted... .

You have not answered my question, you must answer before posting.

 

[Pythagorean]

...someone already posted that but ok... still a good song.

doh!

 

[maverick_starstrider]

Explain how you come to that conclusion from what I said. I'm serious, POST your explanation before you post again. My point is that the term was quite common in the late 60's and early seventies and I'm sure you have no idea that the term has a different meaning to someone that lived through that era.

let's be clear. You are attempting to justify your correctness in disqualifying another human being by providing an entirely incorrect etymology of the word freak.

 

[maverick_starstrider]

You have not answered my question, you must answer before posting.

I did. Twice.

 

[Evo]

Because your anecdote was a lame attempt to basically say "hey, I'm cool and down with it and used to be edgy and therefore my opinions and prejudices should have special weight". Back in the 60's we had the real freaks. This isn't the first time you've tried to pull the "well when I was a kid..." card as if that has any relevance.

No, I was explaining why "freak" might mean something different to Ivan, and why you shouldn't make accusations that could be construed as personal attacks. And why you shouldn't over react. And why the term might be enjoyed by someone that choses to dress shockingly.

 

[maverick_starstrider]

No, I was explaining why freak "freak" might mean something different to Ivan. And why you shouldn't over react. And why the term might be enjoyed by someone that choses to dress schockingly.

You are all well aware that freak has lost its co-opted meaning from the freak scene and you were entirely using it in the "freak of nature" sense and not in the Ian Gillan sense. You are using it as a pejorative to devalue the worth of another individual based on odd appearance or habit.

 

[Evo]

You are all well aware that freak has lost its co-opted meaning from the freak scene and you were entirely using it in the "freak of nature" sense and not in the Ian Gillan sense. You are using it as a pejorative to devalue the worth of another individual based on odd appearance or habit.

Before you declare what someone means, I suggest you ask them. Ask Ivan what he meant.

I proposed the definition that it described someone that chooses to be considered "outside of what is the social norm", so you're dead wrong. I was very clear, so I am amazed that you would make such a claim.

 

[maverick_starstrider]

I might be completely off base here but how much of this ire is coming from a place of cognitive dissonance. At some point you decided to abandon 60's subculture and captain the S.S. Yuppie, play oyster to the walrus (coo coo ca choo) and now you've convinced yourself that it was "wisdom" that motivated the choice and you are now more "wise" instead of the social and personal pressures the motivated the choice originally.

 

[Cyrus]

I can just imagine him trying to get a real job dressed like that.

 

[maverick_starstrider]

Before you declare what someone means, I suggest you ask them. Ask Ivan what he meant.

I proposed the definition that it described someone that chooses to be considered "outside of what is the social norm", so you're dead wrong. I was very clear, so I am amazed that you would make such a claim.

Well I took Ivan's post to be ironic. He was simultaneously calling the kid a freak and pointing out how he'd been subject to identical treatment.

 

[Phrak]

The intent is to garner attention. Sometimes the intent is to garner derisive attention. Someone should point the boy to this forum so he might luxuriate in it.

 

[maverick_starstrider]

You're the one who is consistently insinuating that he is mis-guided (due entirely to bashful youth) and that it is amusing rather then tragic that society will treat him very badly.

 

[Cyrus]

You're the one who is consistently insinuating that he is mis-guided (due entirely to bashful youth) and that it is amusing rather then tragic that society will treat him very badly.

Why is it tragic when he make the decision himself? Woe is me. Me made a choice knowing the consequences of his choice. Boo-hoo-hoo.

 

[maverick_starstrider]

Why is it tragic when he make the decision himself? Woe is me. Me made a choice knowing the consequences of his choice. Boo-hoo-hoo.

So it's ok if jocks pick on nerds. The nerds deserved it with all their thinking and stuff. That's justified because if they didn't want to be picked on they should have fallen in line.

 

[Cyrus]

So it's ok if jocks pick on nerds. The nerds deserved it with all their thinking and stuff. That's justified because if they didn't want to be picked on they should have fallen in line.

No one's talking about jocks, nerds, or picking on someone. You should pay attention to what I said, not what I didn't say. I said he looks like a fool.

 

[Phrak]

I said he looks like a fool.

Do you think he want's your to say he looks like a fool--you old foggie?

 

[Cyrus]

Do you think he want's your to say he looks like a fool--you old foggie?

I think, for whatever reason, he want's attention he's not getting by being normal. Theres absolutely a reason why he decides to dress like that.

All you have to do is thumb through a GQ magazine to realize that you dress well while having your own style and still have people give you attention (and positive attention), without looking like a clown and subjecting yourself to ridicule.

The kid is stupid in many, many respects. Socially, he's retarded.

 

[maverick_starstrider]

No one's talking about jocks, nerds, or picking on someone. You should pay attention to what I said, not what I didn't say. I said he looks like a fool.

You wouldn't consider calling someone a fool, picking on them? I got to get my *** over to britain.

 

[Cyrus]

You wouldn't consider calling someone a fool, picking on them? I got to get my *** over to britain.

When did I say I would walk up to him and say "Hey, you. You're a stupid fool - you fool". Stop reading into what I'm not saying.

 

[maverick_starstrider]

I think, for whatever reason, he want's attention he's not getting by being normal. Theres absolutely a reason why he decides to dress like that.

All you have to do is thumb through a GQ magazine to realize that you dress well while having your own style and still have people give you attention (and positive attention), without looking like a clown.

Actually I think the people in GQ look like douches. Considering we could have arbitrarily picked any fashion to be the "societal norm" for men, who was responsible for picking one that looked so iffeminate. This isn't being hypocritical, if you feel like the guy who dresses like a metrosexual then have at it. But in terms of picking a style that people will blindly follow regardless what it looks like... We could have injected some testoserone.

 

[maverick_starstrider]

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[GeorginaS]

All of your "you old people picking on young people" commentary leads me to ask you, maverick starstrider, how old are you?

 

[Tobias Funke]

You see? You see what happens when you don't dress normally? You cause arguments on PF. I hope you're happy, male ganguro.

 

[maverick_starstrider]

All of your "you old people picking on young people" commentary leads me to ask you, maverick starstrider, how old are you?

I don't want to say because then people will try and say inane things like "well wait till you're age X and then you'll understand". But I'm in graduate school.

 

[Cyrus]

Actually I think the people in GQ look like douches.

There you goooooooooooo. See, it's ok to have an opinion. It means you have a brain and can make judgments.

 

[maverick_starstrider]

There you goooooooooooo. See, it's ok to have an opinion.

I never said it wasn't. I also never said that when people try and dress a certain way that they aren't trying to make a statement. My contention is that it is a negative thing to consciously try and separate oneself (even if done in a very average, over done way) from others. To me that is far more virtuous then trying to beat people back into line with derision.

 

[Cyrus]

You very clearly couldn't deal with the fact that I had a negative opinion of him.