Solve Asymmetric Piston Problem for SL

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around solving an asymmetric piston problem presented in a textbook, focusing on the equilibrium conditions of the system and the implications of a diathermal piston. Participants explore the requirements of the problem, including the application of the ideal gas law and the relationships between pressure, volume, and temperature.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested
  • Homework-related

Main Points Raised

  • One participant expresses confusion about the problem's requirements, noting that they have derived equations based on equilibrium conditions but feel they may be missing additional expectations from the author.
  • Another participant clarifies that the piston is diathermal, which implies that the temperatures on both sides are equal at equilibrium, contradicting an earlier assumption of differing temperatures.
  • A different approach is suggested, assuming the same gas species in both chambers, proposing equations for final temperature, volumes, and pressures, while also noting the need for displacement to find final pressure.
  • One participant acknowledges the ambiguity in the author's expectations regarding the displacement of the piston, indicating uncertainty about the problem's requirements.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express varying interpretations of the problem, particularly regarding the implications of the diathermal nature of the piston and the necessity of calculating displacement. No consensus is reached on the author's expectations or the correct approach to the problem.

Contextual Notes

Participants highlight potential limitations in their understanding, including the unclear expectations from the author and the implications of the diathermal condition on temperature equality.

SchroedingersLion
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Greetings!

Can you help me understand what this text book problem asks of me?
piston.PNG


The situation was considered in the text: In equilibrium, the forces on both sides of the piston are equal: ##A_1P_1 = A_2P_2##.
This is the first equation. It should also answer part 3 of the question. The piston allows heat exchange, so that in equilibrium I have ##T_1=T_2##. This should answer part 2. To get a second equation to answer part one, I can just apply the ideal gas law to the first equation to get
$$
A_j\frac{N_j}{V_j} = A_k\frac{N_k}{V_k}.
$$

I feel like this is way too easy and I am missing something... I don't know what the author wants me to do. I should note that he derived the entropy function S(E,V,N) of the ideal gas, and also the three partial derivatives such as ##\left(\frac{\partial S}{\partial V}\right)_{E,N}=\frac {P} {T} ##, so maybe he expects some more wizardry with them?SL
 
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The problem says the piston is diathermal so ##T_1 \neq T_2##.

EDIT I confused it with adiabatic.
 
Last edited:
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anuttarasammyak said:
The problem says the piston is diathermal so ##T_1 \neq T_2##.
Diathermal means that the temperature ARE equal in the end.
 
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I don't know what the author had in mind, but here are some thoughts on how I would approach this problem (assuming the same gas species is in both chambers). For the final temperature, I would have $$T=\frac{(E_1+E_2)}{C_v(N_1+N_2)}$$
For the final volumes, I would have: $$V_1=V_{10}+A_1\delta$$$$V_2=V_{20}-A_2\delta$$where ##\delta## is the displacement of the piston. So, for the final pressures, we would have: $$P_1=\frac{N_1RT}{V_1}$$$$P_2=\frac{N_2RT}{V_2}$$subject to $$P_1A_1=P_2A_2$$This provides sufficient information to determine the piston displacement ##\delta##.
 
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Thanks Chestermiller!

The author did not ask for the displacement, so it is really unclear what he even expects. Glad to know that I did not miss something obvious.
 
To get the final pressure, you need to first solve for the displacement.
 

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