Solve Relativistic Lens Problem: Focal Length & Gamma

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the effects of relativistic speeds on the focal length of lenses, particularly how the focal length changes as the velocity of the lens increases. Participants explore theoretical implications and the behavior of light as observed through a moving lens, without focusing on a specific problem or scenario.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Debate/contested
  • Conceptual clarification

Main Points Raised

  • One participant questions how to approach the problem of a lens moving at relativistic speeds and suggests that the focal length increases, speculating that it may change by a factor of gamma.
  • Another participant proposes that from the perspective of an observer moving alongside the lens, the focal length behaves according to length contraction, suggesting it should be divided by gamma.
  • A different viewpoint asserts that as the lens moves transversely, it could appear as a single sheet of glass, implying that the focal length increases and could become infinite, thus not bending light. This participant believes the new focal length should be the old one multiplied by gamma.
  • Further discussion raises the idea that the index of refraction may not be invariant, linking it to the behavior of light in gravitational fields and suggesting that the convergence point of light rays should remain invariant.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on how the focal length of a lens changes at relativistic speeds, with no consensus reached. Some argue for an increase in focal length, while others support the idea of length contraction affecting the focal length.

Contextual Notes

Participants do not resolve the assumptions regarding the invariance of the index of refraction or the implications of gravitational fields on light behavior, leaving these aspects open for further discussion.

AUK 1138
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How would you go about solving a problem involving a lens moving at relativistic speeds, or an object being relativistic being viewed through a lens? instead of coming up with a specific problem, does anyone know what happens to lens' focal length and such as its velocity becomes large? not so much as a limit, but in general. i would assume its focal length increases in both converging and diverging lenses, but by what factor? does it simply change by gamma? any help appreciated.
 
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The easiest way to think about it is if you have a solid rod held by an observer alongside it, moving at the same speed.

The observer won't notice anything relativistic, because from their point of view nothing is moving at relativistic speeds (except the surroundings, which, for this thought experiment are just empty space).

So if the observer sees a focused spot of light from the lens near the end of the rod, so will anyone else who can see the rod (because we must keep causality).

Which means that the focal length of the lens just follows http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Length_contraction" like the rod does, assuming that you have an inertial (constant velocity) frame of reference. So you just divide the length by gamma.

regards, Michael
 
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Thank you for the response, but I'm adamant in thinking the focal length gets longer. it seems like for an observer who's viewing the lens on it's side, as it travels transversely with it's focal lengths that it would eventually appear to a be a single sheet of glass, which could be viewed as a lens with an infinite focal length, which therefore doesn't bend the light. meaning that the focal length was getting longer as its velocity increases. basically, i'd think the new focal length would be the old one times gamma, not divided by it, as the focal length is a property of the lens and not a physical distance in and of itself.
 
AUK 1138 said:
Thank you for the response, but I'm adamant in thinking the focal length gets longer. it seems like for an observer who's viewing the lens on it's side, as it travels transversely with it's focal lengths that it would eventually appear to a be a single sheet of glass, which could be viewed as a lens with an infinite focal length, which therefore doesn't bend the light. meaning that the focal length was getting longer as its velocity increases. basically, i'd think the new focal length would be the old one times gamma, not divided by it, as the focal length is a property of the lens and not a physical distance in and of itself.

This sounds to me like an argument that the index of refraction of the material is not invariant, as the point where the lightray's converge should be invariant.

In fact, the index of refraction of empty space being increased by a gravitational field is one explanation of the fact that relative to an outside observer the speed of light varies as one decends into a gravitational well (always locally c, but dime dilated relative to the outside observer.)
 

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