Solve three simultaneous polynomial equations in three variables....

Click For Summary
SUMMARY

The discussion focuses on solving three simultaneous polynomial equations in three variables: x² + xy + y² = 3, y² + yz + z² = 1, and z² + zx + x² = 4. Participants suggest using a new coordinate system rotated by 45° to eliminate mixed terms and simplify the equations. They also recommend employing a computer algebra system, such as Maple, with Groebner Basis techniques for efficient solving. The conversation highlights both algebraic methods and graphical approaches to tackle the problem.

PREREQUISITES
  • Understanding of polynomial equations and their properties
  • Familiarity with coordinate transformations, specifically rotation of axes
  • Knowledge of Groebner Basis and its application in solving polynomial systems
  • Experience with computer algebra systems, particularly Maple
NEXT STEPS
  • Study the method of rotating coordinate systems to eliminate mixed terms in polynomial equations
  • Learn how to implement Groebner Basis techniques in Maple or similar software
  • Explore the properties of cubic equations and their identities for solving simultaneous equations
  • Practice solving polynomial systems using both algebraic methods and computational tools
USEFUL FOR

Mathematicians, students studying algebra, and anyone involved in solving polynomial equations or working with computer algebra systems will benefit from this discussion.

  • #31
I have found the solution. There are two possible values for z.
From ##6z^2 - 12zy =0 ##
We have ## 6z(z-2y)=0##
##6z=0## or ##z=2y##
Picking ##z=0## solves the simultaneous equations,
Since ##x=3z-2y##
##x=-2y##
##y=1, x=2##
##y=-1, x=-2##
Thanks guys,
Algebra is the best take on this, my thoughts.
 
  • Like
Likes   Reactions: Alloymouse
Physics news on Phys.org
  • #32
chwala said:
I have found the solution. There are two possible values for z.
From ##6z^2 - 12zy =0 ##
We have ## 6z(z-2y)=0##
##6z=0## or ##z=2y##
Picking ##z=0## solves the simultaneous equations,
Since ##x=3z-2y##
##x=-2y##
##y=1, x=2##
##y=-1, x=-2##
The result is not quite correct. Recall that ##x=-2y##, If y=1, x=-2, and if y=-1, x=2.

Also there is one more solution set, for ##z-2y=0##.
 
  • #33
chwala said:
I have found the solution. There are two possible values for z.
From ##6z^2 - 12zy =0 ##
We have ## 6z(z-2y)=0##
##6z=0## or ##z=2y##
Picking ##z=0## solves the simultaneous equations,
Since ##x=3z-2y##
##x=-2y##
##y=1, x=2##
##y=-1, x=-2##
Thanks guys,
Algebra is the best take on this, my thoughts.

You have made some sign errors. There are four solutions:
$$\begin{array}{ccc}
x=2, &y=-1,&z=0\\
x=-2, &y=1, &z=0\\
x=4/\sqrt{7}, &y=1/\sqrt{7}, &z=2/\sqrt{7} \\
x=-4/\sqrt{7}, &y=-1/\sqrt{7},& z = -2/\sqrt{7}
\end{array}
$$
You can get the values of ##z## from the last equation in post #12, then substitute those values in the original equations to find ##x## and ##y##; or, you can use the other equations in post #12 to find the corresponding values of ##x,y##.
 
  • Like
Likes   Reactions: chwala
  • #34
ehild said:
The result is not quite correct. Recall that ##x=-2y##, If y=1, x=-2, and if y=-1, x=2.

Also there is one more solution set, for ##z-2y=0##.
What do you mean? I clearly said considering ##6z=0## from my working will give you the solution. Kindly note that there are two values for ##z## and clearly ##z-2y=0## will not give you the solution.
 
  • #35
chwala said:
What do you mean? I clearly said considering ##6z=0## from my working will give you the solution.
In Post #31, you got ##6z(z-2y)=0##. That means two possibilities: either ##6z=0## or ##z-2y=0##. Assuming z=0 gives one sets of solutions. Assuming z-2y=0 gives the other set.
 
  • Like
Likes   Reactions: chwala
  • #36
ehild said:
The result is not quite correct. Recall that ##x=-2y##, If y=1, x=-2, and if y=-1, x=2.

Also there is one more solution set, for ##z-2y=0##.
Aaaaaaaah I have seen my sign error, guess I was tired, thanks though.
 
  • #37
chwala said:
What do you mean? I clearly said considering ##6z=0## from my working will give you the solution. Kindly note that there are two values for ##z## and clearly ##z-2y=0## will not give you the solution.
Well, z=2y also gives solutions. See @Ray Vickson's Post #33, he gave the full solution (although it is not allowed here).
 
  • #38
ehild said:
Well, z=2y also gives solutions. See @Ray Vickson's Post #33, he gave the full solution (although it is not allowed here).
I find no offense with his solution, I found the solution he though gave other possible solutions which is OK, reading my post I was only interested in finding the solutions in the text, which I found... Nothing wrong with anyone giving more solutions, my thoughts
 
  • #39
chwala said:
I find no offense with his solution, I found the solution he though gave other possible solutions which is OK, reading my post I was only interested in finding the solutions in the text, which I found... Nothing wrong with anyone giving more solutions, my thoughts
It is the policy of this Forum that the Helper must not give full solution, unless the OP produced his one. You did not give the full solution yet.
 
  • #40
noted...i am able to get the other solution, but i was interested in the solution that i found...thanks a lot guys...
 
  • #41
chwala said:
noted...i am able to get the other solution, but i was interested in the solution that i found...thanks a lot guys...
There is only one solution, the whole set of possible x, y, z values.
 
  • #42
I found another approach to solving this with elementary symmetric sums, plus a bit of linear algebra mixed in. If @chwala would perhaps post a full solution, I could post my solution approach.

---
edit: maybe not. too many small bugs.
 
Last edited:
  • #43
StoneTemplePython said:
I found another approach to solving this with elementary symmetric sums, plus a bit of linear algebra mixed in. If @chwala would perhaps post a full solution, I could post my solution approach.

---
edit: maybe not. too many small bugs.
I thought i had posted the solution, made some sign error... Unless you want me to post step by step which is time consuming, if you insist I will just highlight on the last steps leading to all the four possible solutions..
 
  • #44
chwala said:
I thought i had posted the solution, made some sign error... Unless you want me to post step by step which is time consuming, if you insist I will just highlight on the last steps leading to all the four possible solutions..

No worries. There were just too many small bugs in my solution so I'm not going to post it -- I wouldn't insist anything more from you.
 
  • #45
ehild said:
There is only one solution, the whole set of possible x, y, z values.
Whichever way you call it, x ,y, z may have different values as indicated by the four possible sets or rather values.
 
  • #46
StoneTemplePython said:
No worries. There were just too many small bugs in my solution so I'm not going to post it -- I wouldn't insist anything more from you.
Can I have a look at your symmetric method
 

Similar threads

Replies
1
Views
1K
Replies
12
Views
1K
  • · Replies 6 ·
Replies
6
Views
2K
  • · Replies 5 ·
Replies
5
Views
2K
Replies
9
Views
2K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
2K
  • · Replies 34 ·
2
Replies
34
Views
3K
  • · Replies 5 ·
Replies
5
Views
2K
  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
2K
Replies
7
Views
2K