Solve three simultaneous polynomial equations in three variables....

Click For Summary

Homework Help Overview

The discussion revolves around solving three simultaneous polynomial equations in three variables: \(x^2 + xy + y^2 = 3\), \(y^2 + yz + z^2 = 1\), and \(z^2 + zx + x^2 = 4\). Participants explore various methods for tackling this system, including algebraic manipulations and transformations of the equations.

Discussion Character

  • Mixed

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • Participants discuss using identities related to cubic equations and transformations to eliminate mixed terms in the equations. Some suggest using a new coordinate system to simplify the equations, while others explore algebraic methods to derive linear equations from the original system.

Discussion Status

The discussion is ongoing with various approaches being explored. Some participants have provided insights into using graphical calculators and computer algebra systems, while others are questioning specific algebraic steps and seeking clarification on methodologies. There is no explicit consensus on a single approach yet.

Contextual Notes

Some participants mention the limitations of their tools, such as graphing calculators that cannot handle exponents, and there are discussions about potential errors in algebraic manipulations. The complexity of the equations and the need for careful handling of terms are also noted.

  • #31
I have found the solution. There are two possible values for z.
From ##6z^2 - 12zy =0 ##
We have ## 6z(z-2y)=0##
##6z=0## or ##z=2y##
Picking ##z=0## solves the simultaneous equations,
Since ##x=3z-2y##
##x=-2y##
##y=1, x=2##
##y=-1, x=-2##
Thanks guys,
Algebra is the best take on this, my thoughts.
 
  • Like
Likes   Reactions: Alloymouse
Physics news on Phys.org
  • #32
chwala said:
I have found the solution. There are two possible values for z.
From ##6z^2 - 12zy =0 ##
We have ## 6z(z-2y)=0##
##6z=0## or ##z=2y##
Picking ##z=0## solves the simultaneous equations,
Since ##x=3z-2y##
##x=-2y##
##y=1, x=2##
##y=-1, x=-2##
The result is not quite correct. Recall that ##x=-2y##, If y=1, x=-2, and if y=-1, x=2.

Also there is one more solution set, for ##z-2y=0##.
 
  • #33
chwala said:
I have found the solution. There are two possible values for z.
From ##6z^2 - 12zy =0 ##
We have ## 6z(z-2y)=0##
##6z=0## or ##z=2y##
Picking ##z=0## solves the simultaneous equations,
Since ##x=3z-2y##
##x=-2y##
##y=1, x=2##
##y=-1, x=-2##
Thanks guys,
Algebra is the best take on this, my thoughts.

You have made some sign errors. There are four solutions:
$$\begin{array}{ccc}
x=2, &y=-1,&z=0\\
x=-2, &y=1, &z=0\\
x=4/\sqrt{7}, &y=1/\sqrt{7}, &z=2/\sqrt{7} \\
x=-4/\sqrt{7}, &y=-1/\sqrt{7},& z = -2/\sqrt{7}
\end{array}
$$
You can get the values of ##z## from the last equation in post #12, then substitute those values in the original equations to find ##x## and ##y##; or, you can use the other equations in post #12 to find the corresponding values of ##x,y##.
 
  • Like
Likes   Reactions: chwala
  • #34
ehild said:
The result is not quite correct. Recall that ##x=-2y##, If y=1, x=-2, and if y=-1, x=2.

Also there is one more solution set, for ##z-2y=0##.
What do you mean? I clearly said considering ##6z=0## from my working will give you the solution. Kindly note that there are two values for ##z## and clearly ##z-2y=0## will not give you the solution.
 
  • #35
chwala said:
What do you mean? I clearly said considering ##6z=0## from my working will give you the solution.
In Post #31, you got ##6z(z-2y)=0##. That means two possibilities: either ##6z=0## or ##z-2y=0##. Assuming z=0 gives one sets of solutions. Assuming z-2y=0 gives the other set.
 
  • Like
Likes   Reactions: chwala
  • #36
ehild said:
The result is not quite correct. Recall that ##x=-2y##, If y=1, x=-2, and if y=-1, x=2.

Also there is one more solution set, for ##z-2y=0##.
Aaaaaaaah I have seen my sign error, guess I was tired, thanks though.
 
  • #37
chwala said:
What do you mean? I clearly said considering ##6z=0## from my working will give you the solution. Kindly note that there are two values for ##z## and clearly ##z-2y=0## will not give you the solution.
Well, z=2y also gives solutions. See @Ray Vickson's Post #33, he gave the full solution (although it is not allowed here).
 
  • #38
ehild said:
Well, z=2y also gives solutions. See @Ray Vickson's Post #33, he gave the full solution (although it is not allowed here).
I find no offense with his solution, I found the solution he though gave other possible solutions which is OK, reading my post I was only interested in finding the solutions in the text, which I found... Nothing wrong with anyone giving more solutions, my thoughts
 
  • #39
chwala said:
I find no offense with his solution, I found the solution he though gave other possible solutions which is OK, reading my post I was only interested in finding the solutions in the text, which I found... Nothing wrong with anyone giving more solutions, my thoughts
It is the policy of this Forum that the Helper must not give full solution, unless the OP produced his one. You did not give the full solution yet.
 
  • #40
noted...i am able to get the other solution, but i was interested in the solution that i found...thanks a lot guys...
 
  • #41
chwala said:
noted...i am able to get the other solution, but i was interested in the solution that i found...thanks a lot guys...
There is only one solution, the whole set of possible x, y, z values.
 
  • #42
I found another approach to solving this with elementary symmetric sums, plus a bit of linear algebra mixed in. If @chwala would perhaps post a full solution, I could post my solution approach.

---
edit: maybe not. too many small bugs.
 
Last edited:
  • #43
StoneTemplePython said:
I found another approach to solving this with elementary symmetric sums, plus a bit of linear algebra mixed in. If @chwala would perhaps post a full solution, I could post my solution approach.

---
edit: maybe not. too many small bugs.
I thought i had posted the solution, made some sign error... Unless you want me to post step by step which is time consuming, if you insist I will just highlight on the last steps leading to all the four possible solutions..
 
  • #44
chwala said:
I thought i had posted the solution, made some sign error... Unless you want me to post step by step which is time consuming, if you insist I will just highlight on the last steps leading to all the four possible solutions..

No worries. There were just too many small bugs in my solution so I'm not going to post it -- I wouldn't insist anything more from you.
 
  • #45
ehild said:
There is only one solution, the whole set of possible x, y, z values.
Whichever way you call it, x ,y, z may have different values as indicated by the four possible sets or rather values.
 
  • #46
StoneTemplePython said:
No worries. There were just too many small bugs in my solution so I'm not going to post it -- I wouldn't insist anything more from you.
Can I have a look at your symmetric method
 

Similar threads

Replies
1
Views
1K
Replies
12
Views
2K
  • · Replies 6 ·
Replies
6
Views
2K
  • · Replies 5 ·
Replies
5
Views
2K
Replies
9
Views
2K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
2K
  • · Replies 34 ·
2
Replies
34
Views
3K
  • · Replies 5 ·
Replies
5
Views
2K
  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
2K
Replies
7
Views
2K