Solving a 2nd-Order ODE for Conservation of Energy

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Homework Help Overview

The discussion revolves around a conservative second-order ordinary differential equation (ODE) related to a mechanical system, specifically focusing on the conservation of energy principle. Participants are examining the relationship between potential energy and kinetic energy within the context of this ODE.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory, Conceptual clarification, Mathematical reasoning

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • Participants are attempting to define the problem and explore the integration of the ODE. There are discussions about the correct formulation of the conservation of energy equation and the potential energy function. Some participants are questioning the application of the chain rule and the relationship between kinetic and potential energy.

Discussion Status

There is an ongoing exploration of the correct expressions for kinetic and potential energy, with some participants providing insights into the integration process. Multiple interpretations of the conservation of energy equation are being discussed, and participants are actively questioning assumptions and definitions.

Contextual Notes

There are indications of potential typos in the problem statement, and some participants are clarifying the correct forms of the equations involved. The discussion includes references to external resources for further context.

Jazradel
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Homework Statement


Consider a mechanical system describe by the conservative 2nd-order ODE
\frac{\partial^{2}x}{\partial t^{2}}=f(x)
(which could be non linear). If the potential energy is V(x)=-\int^{x}_{0} f(\xi) d \xi, show that the system satisfies conservation of energy \frac{1}{2}x^{2}+V(x)=E (E is a constant).

Homework Equations


As above.

The Attempt at a Solution


I've missed almost everything we've done on ODEs, so I don't really have any idea how to being. Even knowing what to call the problem, or a link to some notes/worked examples/relevant textbook would be great. I think the start is to define:
x(t)=\begin{array}{c} <br /> x_{1}(t) \\<br /> x_{2}(t) \\ <br /> \end{array}
Then sub into the first equation:
\frac{\partial^{2} x_{1}}{\partial t^{2}}=f_{1}(x_{1},x_{2})
\frac{\partial^{2} x_{2}}{\partial t^{2}}=f_{2}(x_{1},x_{2})
Now I think I should use the chain rule, and integrate equation 2, but I can't see how.
 
Last edited:
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Jazradel said:

Homework Statement


Consider a mechanical system describe by the conservative 2nd-order ODE
\frac{\partial^{2}x}{\partial t^{2}}=f(x)
(which could be non linear). If the potential energy is V(x)=-\int^{x_0} f(\xi) \xi, show that the system satisfies conservation of energy \frac{1}{2}x^{2}+V(X)=E (E is a constant).
I think you mean \frac{1}{2}\dot{x}^2 + V(x) = E. Just integrate the original equation with respect to x. You'll want to use the chain rule to evaluate the integral on the LHS.
 
I just checked, it's definitely \frac{1}{2}x^{2}+V(x)=E. I did have to fix the V(X) and the domain of the integration.

You're saying do this?
\int f(x) dx = \int \frac{\partial^{2}x}{\partial t^{2}} dx
\int \frac{\partial^{2}x}{\partial t^{2}} dx = \int \frac{\partial}{\partial t} ( \frac{\partial x}{\partial t} ) dx
The problem is I have no idea how to apply the chain rule to this case.
 
Jazradel said:
I just checked, it's definitely \frac{1}{2}x^{2}+V(x)=E.
That can't be right. It would only hold if V(x)=-1/2 x2+V0. The first term is supposed to be the kinetic energy, so it needs to depend on v2, not x2.
You're saying do this?
\int f(x) dx = \int \frac{\partial^{2}x}{\partial t^{2}} dx
\int \frac{\partial^{2}x}{\partial t^{2}} dx = \int \frac{\partial}{\partial t} ( \frac{\partial x}{\partial t} ) dx
The problem is I have no idea how to apply the chain rule to this case.
You want to use
\frac{\partial}{\partial t} = \frac{\partial x}{\partial t} \frac{\partial}{\partial x}
 
Ah thanks, that should be great help.

You can view the assignment here http://www.maths.utas.edu.au/People/Forbes/KYA314Ass2in2011.pdf . Question 2. (a) is the one in question. I think I've typed it correctly though.

Edit: I have confirmed it is not a typo.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
That's a typo for sure.
 
For problems like these, "conservation of energy" arises from using "quadrature" on the differential equation.

That is, if x''= f(x), a function of x, only, we can let v= x' and then use the chain rule:
\frac{d^2x}{dt^2}= \frac{dv}{dt}= \frac{dv}{dx}\frac{dx}{dt}= v\frac{dv}{dx}
so that our equation x''= f(x) becomes v v'= f(x) where the differentiation is now with respect to x:
v\frac{dv}{dx}= f(x)
v dv= f(x)dx
\frac{1}{2}v^2= \int_0^x f(x)dx+ C
\frac{1}{2}v^2- \int_0^x f(x)dx= C
 

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