Solving a Problem with Sets: x+y <xy, then y>0

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Homework Help Overview

The problem involves proving a statement about integers, specifically that if \( x > 0 \) and \( x + y < xy \), then \( y > 0 \). The context is set within the properties of integers.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory, Assumption checking, Problem interpretation

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • The original poster expresses confusion about how to start the proof and seeks guidance. Some participants question the properties of the integers, specifically whether they are an ordered field or a commutative ring, indicating a need for clarity on the foundational aspects of the problem.

Discussion Status

Participants are exploring different aspects of the problem, with one suggesting a proof by contradiction approach. There is no explicit consensus yet, as the discussion is still in the early stages with various interpretations being considered.

Contextual Notes

There is a noted lack of clarity regarding the properties of the set of integers, which may impact the direction of the discussion and the approaches taken.

spoc21
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Hi, I'm having a lot of trouble with the following question:

Homework Statement



(a) Let x,y ∈ Z. Prove that if x>0 and x+y <xy, then y>0

Homework Equations


x+y <xy, then y>0


The Attempt at a Solution



I am very confused with this problem, and am not even sure on how to start. Any tips/suggestions to help me get started would be greatly appreciated.
 
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What properties does Z have ? Is it an ordered field ? A commutative ring , a subset of R etc. Without this information I do not see how we can help you.
 
╔(σ_σ)╝ said:
What properties does Z have ? Is it an ordered field ? A commutative ring , a subset of R etc. Without this information I do not see how we can help you.
Z is just the set of integers.
 
I think this might be a way to prove it, using a proof by contradiction.

Assume that x and y are in Z, x + y < xy, and y <= 0.

Since by assumption, y <= 0, then x + y <= x.
Then (x + y)2 <= x2
From the above, it follows that y(2x + y) <= 0.

Now, work with that inequality to try to get a contradiction, keeping in mind that x and y can only be integer values, and that x > 0 and y <= 0.
 

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