Solving a Trigonometry Question: Understanding the Equation and Breaking it Down

  • Thread starter Thread starter yungman
  • Start date Start date
  • Tags Tags
    Trigonometry
Click For Summary

Homework Help Overview

The discussion revolves around a trigonometric equation involving cosine and sine functions, specifically examining the expression \(\left[\frac{\cos\left(\frac{\pi}{2}\cos\theta\right)}{\sin\theta}\right]^2=\sin^3\theta\). Participants express confusion about the derivation and validity of the equation, questioning how to approach it and whether it can be solved.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory, Assumption checking, Conceptual clarification

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • Participants discuss the validity of the equation, with some suggesting it may not hold true in general. Questions arise about the nature of the relationship between the left-hand side and right-hand side of the equation, and whether it can be solved exactly or requires numerical methods. There are also considerations of using series expansions to approximate the cosine function.

Discussion Status

The conversation is ongoing, with various interpretations and approaches being explored. Some participants have provided insights into potential approximations and numerical methods, while others continue to seek clarification on the underlying assumptions and the context of the problem.

Contextual Notes

Participants note that the equation may be derived from a specific context in antenna theory, with references to a textbook. There is mention of the range of \(\theta\) being from 0 to \(\pi\), which relates to spherical coordinates in electromagnetic wave propagation.

yungman
Messages
5,741
Reaction score
291
From the equation, it implies:
[tex]\left[\frac{\cos\left(\frac{\pi}{2}\cos\theta\right)}{\sin\theta}\right]^2=\sin^3\theta[/tex]
For the life of me, I have no idea how this come about.

I don't even know where to start, this implies ##\cos\left(\frac{\pi}{2}\cos\theta\right)=\sin^{\frac 5 2}\theta##.

Please help me in how to even start. How do you break up ##\cos\left(\frac{\pi}{2}\cos\theta\right)##?

Thanks
 
Last edited:
Physics news on Phys.org
yungman said:
From the equation, it implies:
[tex]\left[\frac{\cos\left(\frac{\pi}{2}\cos\theta\right)}{\sin\theta}\right]^2=\sin^3\theta[/tex]
For the life of me, I have no idea how this come about.

I don't even know where to start, this implies ##\cos\left(\frac{\pi}{2}\cos\theta\right)=\sin^{\frac 5 2}\theta##.

Please help me in how to even start. How do you break up ##\cos\left(\frac{\pi}{2}\cos\theta\right)##?

Thanks

For a start, it's not even true (in general), i.e. it's not an identity.

Try ##\theta = 23## (radians), for example. The LHS is positive, the RHS is negative, but the numerical values are different as well.

Sure this is not an equation you have to solve?

Even then, an exact solution is not possible, and you'll have to use approximate numerical methods.
 
Curious3141 said:
For a start, it's not even true (in general), i.e. it's not an identity.

Try ##\theta = 23## (radians), for example. The LHS is positive, the RHS is negative, but the numerical values are different as well.

Sure this is not an equation you have to solve?

Even then, an exact solution is not possible, and you'll have to use approximate numerical methods.


Thanks for your reply, I don't even know how to use numerical method as it is a cosine of a cosine.
This is the copy of the Antenna Theory by Balanis page 162. This is a very famous book, pretty much one of the two books for Antenna.
 

Attachments

  • trig .jpg
    trig .jpg
    18 KB · Views: 440
Your attachment is a bit grainy, but it looks like they are saying that the two expressions are "approximately equal" (≈) rather than exactly equal (=).

Is there some information about θ given that you didn't show in the attachment? If so, that would be helpful.
 
Mark44 said:
Your attachment is a bit grainy, but it looks like they are saying that the two expressions are "approximately equal" (≈) rather than exactly equal (=).

Is there some information about θ given that you didn't show in the attachment? If so, that would be helpful.

Thanks.

##\theta## is from 0 to π. This is a full spherical coordinates. This is about EM wave radiating from the origin. So there is no more restriction on ##\theta##.
 
My best guess is that they are using two or three terms in the Maclaurin series for cos(##\pi/2##~cos(θ)), like so:

##cos(\pi/2~cos(θ)) = 1 - (\pi/2)^2/2! * cos^2(θ) + (\pi/2)^4/4! *cos^4(θ) -+ ...##
 
This is a copy that contains a little more information. I have some hand written notes to show where the equations come from. Basically ##W_{av}## is the average energy density at direction given by ##\theta##.

[tex]W_{av}(\theta)=\frac 1 2 Re[\vec E_{\theta}X\vec H_{\phi}^*]=\hat R\frac{|E_{\theta}|^2}{2η}[/tex]

For ##\frac {\lambda}{2}## dipole, ##kl=\frac{\pi}{2}## that give the ##W_{av}## formula.

I don't know all these help at all as I just extract the part in question. I just don't see how more explanation help. But I post this just in case I missed something important. Again thanks for all the help. I know this is not an easy problem. These are advanced electromagnetics in grad school...and I am rusty in math.
 

Attachments

  • trig question L.jpg
    trig question L.jpg
    81.5 KB · Views: 392
Mark44 said:
My best guess is that they are using two or three terms in the Maclaurin series for cos(##\pi/2##~cos(θ)), like so:

##cos(\pi/2~cos(θ)) = 1 - (\pi/2)^2/2! * cos^2(θ) + (\pi/2)^4/4! *cos^4(θ) -+ ...##

Thanks, still this will not give the answer from the book!
 
yungman said:
Thanks, still this will not give the answer from the book!

I really don't think that relation is 'derived' at all. The left hand side of your expression approaches 0 at θ=0, it's 1 at θ=pi/2 and it approaches 0 again at θ=pi. So it's bound to look something like a sine. If you plot it together with (sinθ)^2 you'll see that it's too broad around θ=pi/2, (sinθ)^4 is too narrow. (sinθ)^3 happens to fit pretty well. It's not so good at the ends, but ok.

It's just a convenient approximation, because it's pretty hard to deal with things like cos(cos).
 
Last edited:
  • #10
Dick said:
I really don't think that relation is 'derived' at all. The left hand side of your expression approaches 0 at θ=0, it's 1 at θ=pi/2 and it approaches 0 again at θ=pi. So it's bound to look something like a sine. If you plot it together with (sinθ)^2 you'll see that it's too broad around θ=pi/2, (sinθ)^4 is too narrow. (sinθ)^3 happens to fit pretty well. It's not so good at the ends, but ok.

It's just a convenient approximation, because it's pretty hard to deal with things like cos(cos).

Thanks for the detail explanation. What program do you use to plot this, its there any free program on line that I can use?
 
  • #11
yungman said:
Thanks for the detail explanation. What program do you use to plot this, its there any free program on line that I can use?

Lots, I would imagine. I use Maxima for stuff like this. But you do have to install it on your computer, I don't think it's online. It's VERY free (not just in the sense of no charge, but it's also 'open source'). It also does computer algebra and an endless number of other things. I've used it ever since people stopped paying for a copy of Mathematica for me. Here's a plot command:

plot2d([sin(t)^3,(cos(%pi/2*cos(t))/sin(t))^2],[t,0.01,3]);

I'm sure other people have their favorites as well. But you should definitely check it out. Would be pretty handy for antenna design.

WAIT. I was wrong. Here's an online version of Maxima. http://maxima-online.org. Just paste the line I gave you into it and play around with the exponent '3'.
 
  • #12
Thank you so very much, I'll learn this and see what happen. Also I see the "≈" instead of "=".

Alan
 
Last edited:
  • #13
yungman said:
Thank you so very much, I'll learn this and see what happen.

Alan

Very welcome! There is a learning curve, but it's worth the time. You definitely need this.
 
Last edited:

Similar threads

  • · Replies 14 ·
Replies
14
Views
2K
  • · Replies 5 ·
Replies
5
Views
2K
  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
2K
  • · Replies 5 ·
Replies
5
Views
3K
  • · Replies 4 ·
Replies
4
Views
2K
  • · Replies 6 ·
Replies
6
Views
2K
Replies
3
Views
2K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
2K
Replies
3
Views
2K
  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
2K