Solving an Unexpected Problem: Newton's Third Law

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Homework Help Overview

The problem involves two current-carrying wires oriented in different directions, specifically in the +j and +i directions. The central question posed is whether Newton's third law is violated in this scenario, particularly in the context of the forces and magnetic fields generated by the currents.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory, Assumption checking, Conceptual clarification

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • Participants discuss the setup of the problem, with one seeking clarification on the problem statement and another attempting to analyze the forces and magnetic fields involved. There are questions about the validity of the assumptions made regarding the magnetic field and the application of Newton's third law.

Discussion Status

The discussion is ongoing, with some participants providing insights into the complexities of the problem. One participant notes that the question may be ill-posed, suggesting that the magnetic field from an infinitesimal current element cannot be considered in isolation. There is a recognition of the need to clarify the implications of the forces acting on the wires.

Contextual Notes

There are indications that the problem may be misrepresented or lacks sufficient detail, as one participant points out potential issues with the diagram and the interpretation of forces. The original poster expresses confusion about the apparent violation of Newton's third law, indicating a need for further exploration of the underlying principles.

gazepdapi1
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my professor kind of sprung this problem out of nowhere for the class, and I'm having just a little trouble getting started? The problem goes like this:
A current wire pointing in the +j direction has an Idl. A second current wire in the +i direction has a different Idl.
The question he proposed was, is Newtons third law violated?

http://img241.imageshack.us/img241/7699/untitledxy4.jpg
 
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for the bottom wire the 2's should be one's, my mistake.
Can anyone give me a hint?
 
Can you restate the problem?
 
Here's a new picture of the problem, the first one was not drawn correctly.http://img110.imageshack.us/img110/9952/untitledey8.jpg
The question is, given the two current elements as shown above, with current in the direction of the arrow, is Newtons third law violated. This is what I got. B on 2 due to 1 is in the (+k) direction given by the right hand rule. F on 2 due to B on 1 = I2dl2 X B1 = I2dl2B1 (+j x +k) = (+i) (the numbers are subscripts and the x's represent cross products. B on 1 dues to 2, is 0 because the current is in the same direction as p, the point where we are trying to measure the B. (dl X r) = 0. Therefore there is no force on 1 due to 2. This means that Newton's third law is violated. But the professor told us that it only appears that it's violated and now we have to prove why its not violated.

Can anyone tell me why? I can't seem to figure it out.
thanks a lot, nertil
 
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nobody knows
?
 
This question is ill-posed as written because you can't consider the magnetic field from an infinitesimal current element in isolation. This point is made in every E&M book I'm aware of (see the discussion on the Law of Biot Savart).

If you're being asked to consider two infinitely long wires along i and j directions, of which just a little is pictured, then it's easy to show that the net force on each wire produced by the other is zero, and the third law holds as expected.

As for point P, I don't know what it's supposed to represent in your diagram.
 

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