Solving for the Unknown Integral Kernel?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the possibility of solving for an unknown integral kernel, K(𝑤,𝑣), given known scalar functions f(𝑤) and g(𝑣), under the constraint that the integral of K with respect to 𝑣 equals one. The context includes theoretical exploration and mathematical reasoning related to integral equations.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Mathematical reasoning
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant proposes a method to construct a kernel K from a given kernel K' that satisfies the integral constraint, suggesting that there may be infinitely many such kernels.
  • Another participant questions the validity of the argument regarding the integral of the modified function h'(𝑣) being zero, seeking clarification on the conditions under which this holds.
  • There is a discussion about the implications of defining h' in different ways and whether this leads to a unique solution for K.
  • A later reply indicates that if g is constant, there may be no solution unless f matches certain criteria, highlighting the complexity of the problem.
  • One participant expresses a realization that they cannot solve for a unique K, drawing a parallel to a discrete case where multiple matrices satisfy the proposed relationships.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally agree that there are infinitely many possible kernels K that satisfy the given conditions, indicating a lack of uniqueness. However, the specific arguments and interpretations regarding the construction of these kernels and the implications of certain definitions remain contested.

Contextual Notes

The discussion includes unresolved mathematical steps and assumptions regarding the properties of the functions involved, particularly concerning the behavior of g and the implications of the integral constraints.

vmw
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Consider,

f(\mathbf{w}) = \int K(\mathbf{w,\mathbf{v}}) g(\mathbf{v}) d\mathbf{v}

where \mathbf{v},\mathbf{w} \in \mathbb{R^3}.

Is it possible to solve for the integral kernel, K(\mathbf{w,\mathbf{v}}), if f(\mathbf{w}) and g(\mathbf{v}), are known scalar functions and we require \int K(\mathbf{w,\mathbf{v}}) d\mathbf{v} = 1? These are definite integrals: \int \rightarrow \int_{a1}^{b1}\int_{a2}^{b2}\int_{a3}^{b3}

Thank you for any solution/advice/insight!
 
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Hi vmw,
Suppose you have a K'(w,v) which satisfies the =1 integral constraint. Consider any function h(v), and define h'(v) = h(v)-∫h(v).dv/∫dv. So ∫h'(v).dv = 0.
If it happens that ∫h'(v)g(v).dv is nonzero then set K = K' + h'(v).j(w) where
j(w) = (f(w) - ∫K'(w,v)g(v).dv)/∫h'(v)g(v).dv.
 
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It seems like you are making an argument that there are infinitely many K(\mathbf{w},\mathbf{v}) so one cannot solve for a unique kernel. This is a conclusion I have already come to. However, I do not understand your argument. How can you say h'(\mathbf{v}) = h(\mathbf{v}) - \frac{\int h(\mathbf{v}) d\mathbf{v}}{\int d\mathbf{v}} implies \int h'(\mathbf{v}) d\mathbf{v}= 0? Certainly this is true when h(\mathbf{v}) is a constant but how can you say this is so when h(\mathbf{v}) is any function of \mathbf{v}?
 
vmw said:
It seems like you are making an argument that there are infinitely many K(\mathbf{w},\mathbf{v}) so one cannot solve for a unique kernel. This is a conclusion I have already come to. However, I do not understand your argument. How can you say h'(\mathbf{v}) = h(\mathbf{v}) - \frac{\int h(\mathbf{v}) d\mathbf{v}}{\int d\mathbf{v}} implies \int h'(\mathbf{v}) d\mathbf{v}= 0? Certainly this is true when h(\mathbf{v}) is a constant but how can you say this is so when h(\mathbf{v}) is any function of \mathbf{v}?
Maybe it would have been clearer if I'd written
h'(\mathbf{v}) = h(\mathbf{v}) - \frac{\int h(\mathbf{x}) d\mathbf{x}}{\int d\mathbf{x}}
 
I still can't see why defining h'(\mathbf{v}) = h(\mathbf{v}) + \frac{\int h(\mathbf{x}) d \mathbf{x}}{\int d \mathbf{x}} implies \int h'(\mathbf{v}) d \mathbf{v} = 0. I am probably just being dense.

Instead of getting caught up in the details... Is it accurate to say you are showing me that given a kernel K' that satisfies my condition, you can construct a different kernel K from K' that still satisfies my conditions. Thus K' is not unique?
 
vmw said:
I still can't see why defining h'(\mathbf{v}) = h(\mathbf{v}) + \frac{\int h(\mathbf{x}) d \mathbf{x}}{\int d \mathbf{x}} implies \int h'(\mathbf{v}) d \mathbf{v} = 0.
It's -, not +:
Write c = \frac{\int h(\mathbf{x}) d \mathbf{x}}{\int d \mathbf{x}}= \frac{\int h(\mathbf{v}) d \mathbf{v}}{\int d \mathbf{v}}
\int h'(\mathbf{v}) d \mathbf{v} = \int h(\mathbf{v}) d \mathbf{v} - \int c.d \mathbf{v} = c \int d \mathbf{v} - \int c.d \mathbf{v}= 0.
Instead of getting caught up in the details... Is it accurate to say you are showing me that given a kernel K' that satisfies my condition, you can construct a different kernel K from K' that still satisfies my conditions. Thus K' is not unique?
Not quite. I'm saying that given a K' that satisfies one criterion (the = 1 criterion), it's not hard to construct one that satisfies both. There is the degenrate case where g is a constant. In this case there is no solution unless f happens to be the same (the integral of h'g will always be 0). It would be interesting to prove that an h' can be found which makes h'g integral nonzero when g is not (almost everywhere) constant.
 
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I see. I was, indeed, being dense. You make an interesting point. Thank you.

Ultimately, I am now uninterested in the problem since I realized I cannot solve for a unique K. If you consider the discrete case of my problem where f and g are length-N vectors, there are infinitely many matrices, K, which satisfy the two relationships I have proposed. The continuous cause can be (not-so-rigorously) thought of as the case where N->infinity.
 

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