Solving Integral with Logarithm Identity

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Homework Help Overview

The discussion revolves around evaluating a complex integral involving logarithmic identities and four-vectors in the context of physics. The integral in question is presented with specific limits and a logarithmic expression that includes terms related to four-vectors p and q, which are noted to be timelike. Participants are exploring how to apply a known identity to transform the integral into a more manageable form.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory, Mathematical reasoning, Assumption checking

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • Participants discuss splitting the integral into simpler fractions and logarithmic components to apply a known identity. There are attempts to decompose the logarithm and evaluate parts of the integral separately. Questions arise regarding the validity of certain arguments and the implications of the four-vector nature of p and q on the integration process.

Discussion Status

The discussion is active, with participants providing suggestions and attempting to break down the integral into more manageable parts. Some have expressed uncertainty about their reasoning and the implications of their findings, particularly regarding the signs of certain terms and the overall evaluation of the integral.

Contextual Notes

Participants are working under the constraints of specific mathematical identities and the properties of four-vectors, which complicate the integration process. There is also a request for resources or references that compile similar integral identities, indicating a search for foundational knowledge in this area.

parton
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I read the following expression in a book:

\int_{-\infty}^{\infty} \dfrac{1}{t(1-t)} \log \left| \dfrac{t^{2} q^{2}}{(p-tq)^{2}} \right| ~ dt = - \pi^{2}

p and q are both timelike four-vectors, so p², q² > 0

This integral was solved by using the identity

\lim_{s \to \infty} \int_{-s}^{s} \dfrac{\log \vert t-a \vert}{t-b} ~ dt = \dfrac{\pi^{2}}{2} sign(b - a)

But I don't know how I can apply this identity to the integral above. I don't find any substitution or anything else to 'convert' the integral
in such a shape where I can use these formula.

Could anyone help me please?
 
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Hi parton! :smile:

Try splitting the 1/t(1-t) in particle fractions, and the log into the difference of two logs, and then apply the identity several times. :wink:
 
Hi tiny-tim ! Thanks for your answer :smile:

I tried to split the integral as you suggested:

\int_{-\infty}^{\infty} \dfrac{1}{t(1-t)} \log \left| \dfrac{t^{2} q^{2}}{(p-tq)^{2}} \right| ~ dt = \int_{-\infty}^{\infty} \left[ \dfrac{1}{t} - \dfrac{1}{t-1} \right] \left[ \log \vert t^{2} q^{2} \vert - \log \vert (p-tq)^{2} \vert \right] ~ dt

For the first part, I've got:

\int_{-\infty}^{\infty} \left[ \dfrac{1}{t} - \dfrac{1}{t-1} \right] \log \vert t^{2} q^{2} \vert \right] ~ dt= - \pi^{2}

Here, I decomposed the logarithm again, i.e.

\log \vert t^{2} q^{2} \vert^{2} = 2 \log \vert t \vert + \log \vert q^{2} \vert

I just used the identity for computing
- 2 \int_{-\infty}^{\infty} \dfrac{1}{t-1} \log \vert t \vert = - \pi^{2}

The other integrals coming from this part will vanish, for example:

2 \int_{-\infty}^{\infty} \dfrac{1}{t} \log \vert t \vert ~ dt = \left[ \log \left( \vert t \vert \right) ^{2} \right]_{-\infty}^{\infty} = 0

I argued that: \left[ \log \left( \vert t \vert \right) ^{2} \right]_{-s}^{s} = 0, so it has also to be valid for s--> infinity. But I'm not sure wheter this argument is correct.

Nevertheless, I don't know how to compute the second part of the originial integral:

- \int_{-\infty}^{\infty} \left[ \dfrac{1}{t} - \dfrac{1}{t-1} \right] \log \vert (p-tq)^{2} \vert ~ dt

There is this nasty square appearing in the logarithm, and now I don't know how to continue :confused:

To you know some way to solve this?
 
parton said:
There is this nasty square appearing in the logarithm, and now I don't know how to continue :confused:
Don't you know something about log xe?
 
Don't you know something about log xe?

ok, maybe I could simply write:

-\int_{-\infty}^{\infty} \left[ \dfrac{1}{t} - \dfrac{1}{t-1} \right] \log \vert (p-tq)^{2} \vert ~ dt = -2 \int_{-\infty}^{\infty} \left[ \dfrac{1}{t} - \dfrac{1}{t-1} \right] \log \vert p -t q \vert ~ dt

But how do I solve that? p and q are four-vectors, so I can't simply apply a substitution !?
 
parton said:
There is this nasty square appearing in the logarithm, and now I don't know how to continue :confused:

To you know some way to solve this?

Hi parton! :wink:

The difficulty is that p and q are 4-vectors.

But (p - tq)2 is a quadratic in t (with coefficients which are combinations of the coordinates of p and q), so it must be of the form (t - a)(t - b), where (p - aq)2 = (p - bq)2 = 0.

Does that help? :smile:
 
Yes, it does help, thanks a lot :smile:

So, I wrote:

(p-tq)^{2} = (t-t_{1}) (t-t_{2})

where t_{1,2} = \dfrac{1}{q^{2}} \left[ pq \pm \sqrt{ (pq)^{2} - p^{2} q^{2} } \right]

And I've got:

- \int_{-\infty}^{\infty} \dfrac{1}{t} \left[ \log \vert t - t_{1} \vert + \log \vert t - t_{2} \vert \right] = - \dfrac{\pi^{2}}{2} \left[ sign(-t_{1}) + sign(-t_{2}) \right] = 0

This is of course equal to zero, because of the opposite signs of t_{1} and t_{2}.

But the next one isn't so easy:

+ \int_{-\infty}^{\infty} \dfrac{1}{t-1} \left[ \log \vert t - t_{1} \vert + \log \vert t - t_{2} \vert \right] = \dfrac{\pi^{2}}{2} \left[ sign(1-t_{1}) + sign(1-t_{2}) \right]

Ok, I know that if t_{2} < 0 \Rightarrow 1-t_{2} >0 \Rightarrow sign(1-t_{2}) = 1

But what is sign(1-t_{1}) ?
 
sorry, I made a mistake.

The equation above is not equal to zero.

If I choose a frame where p = (p_{0}, \vec{0}) than I have:

t_{1,2} = \dfrac{p_{0}}{q^{2}} \left[ q^{0} \pm \vert \vec{q} \vert \right] < 0 because of q^{2} = q_{0}^{2} - \vec{q} \, ^{2} > 0 and q_{0} < 0.

So I obtain:

- \int_{-\infty}^{\infty} \dfrac{1}{t} \left[ \log \vert t - t_{1} \vert + \log \vert t - t_{2} \vert \right] ~ dt = - \dfrac{\pi^{2}}{2} \left[ sign(-t_{1}) + sign(-t_{2}) \right] = - \pi^{2}

and

+ \int_{-\infty}^{\infty} \dfrac{1}{t-1} \left[ \log \vert t - t_{1} \vert + \log \vert t - t_{2} \vert \right] ~ dt = \dfrac{\pi^{2}}{2} \left[ sign(1-t_{1}) + sign(1-t_{2}) \right] = \pi^{2}

and finally:

-\int_{-\infty}^{\infty} \left[ \dfrac{1}{t} - \dfrac{1}{t-1} \right] \log \vert (p-tq)^{2} \vert ~ dt = 0

Is anything wrong in my argumentation or is it correct?
 
Last edited:
By the way,

does anyone know where I can find such identities like

\lim_{s \to \infty} \int_{-s}^{s} \dfrac{\log \vert t-a \vert}{t-b} ~ dt = \dfrac{\pi^{2}}{2} sign(b - a)

Is there any book where such formulas are "collected"? I looked in different tables of integrals, but couldn't find them.
 

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