Solving Mechanics Problem: Find a(t) from a(Q)

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around deriving the time-dependent acceleration of a swinging rod from its angular acceleration expressed as a function of angle. Participants explore the relationship between angular motion and linear motion, particularly in the context of a pendulum-like system with specified initial conditions.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory, Technical explanation, Debate/contested, Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • One participant presents a formulation of the rod's motion, expressing angular acceleration as a function of angle Q and gravity.
  • Another participant questions whether the acceleration of the rod could be constant, suggesting a(t) = 0, and emphasizes the need to express Q in terms of time.
  • A third participant challenges the initial expression of gravitational force, proposing that the tangential component should involve -Mg*sin(Q) instead of Mg*cos(Q).
  • A different perspective suggests that the problem setup is unconventional, recommending a more standard approach that measures the angle from the vertical and leads to a differential equation for motion.
  • This participant notes that solving the differential equation may require numerical methods, particularly if closed-form solutions involve complex elliptic integrals.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the setup of the problem and the correct formulation of forces and accelerations. There is no consensus on the best approach to convert a(Q) into a(t), and the discussion remains unresolved regarding the correct expressions and methods to use.

Contextual Notes

Participants highlight potential limitations in the choice of angle and the formulation of forces, indicating that assumptions about the system's behavior may vary. The discussion reflects a range of mathematical approaches and interpretations of physical principles without reaching a definitive resolution.

pwnage101
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i have a mechanics problem. i want to represent the motion of a swinging rod (given initial conditions) as a function of time, but instead i can only find it as a function of the angle.

this rod has uniform density and freely pivots at one end.

Q = angle from 0 counter-clockwise to the rod
L = length
M = mass
Fgrav = force due to gravity

I = integral(r^2 dm, 0,L)
= integral(r^2 M*dl/L, 0,l)
= (M*L^2)/3
Fgrav = Mg -> Mg*cos(Q) tangentially
torque = F*L/2 = I*a
a = (3g/2L)*cos(Q)

how am i able to convert this a(Q) into a(t) ? (that's rotational acceleration by the way)
unfortunately, the following website was of no help. it simply took the exact same steps to get the exact same result
http://www.myphysicslab.com/pendulum1.html

this is for a graphical physics simulation I'm about to finish writing in Java. now i just need the formula
 
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I'm not sure if this thinking is correct, but is the acceleration of the rod not constant? ie. a(t)=0. Just a thought...

Otherwise, you have to find Q in terms of t.

Sorry, that's about as much as I can offer.
 
Fgrav = Mg -> Mg*cos(Q) tangentially?
You sure that isn't -Mg*sin(Q)?

Anyway, if you have an expression of the form I*a = -torque, you can set up the differential eq. I*a + torque = 0, or a + torque/I = 0, where a equals d^2Q/dt^2 (angular acceleration=second derivative of Q with respect to time).
 
You have chosen an awkward way to set this problem up with you choice of the angle Q.

The usual way to set up a pendulum problem is to measure an angle theta from the downward vertical to the rod. Then the equation of motion is
Sum of Torques = - M*g*L/2*sin(theta) = I * ddtheta

Now what you have at this point, and what you had in your original formulation by the way, is a differential equation, that has to be solved, either in closed form or numerically. The closed form solution involves elliptic integrals and is a pretty hairy affair, so unless you are really up to speed on such things, I would suggest that you try a numerical Runge-Kutta solution.
 

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