Solving Permutation Groups: Odd Permutations Have Even Order

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Homework Help Overview

The discussion revolves around the permutation group S_6, specifically focusing on questions regarding the number of elements with certain orders, such as 4 and greater than 7, as well as properties of odd permutations in relation to their order.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory, Conceptual clarification, Mathematical reasoning

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • Participants explore the relationship between the order of elements and the structure of the permutation group. There are attempts to apply group theory concepts, such as the divisibility of orders and the implications of the sign function for odd permutations.

Discussion Status

The discussion includes various attempts to reason through the properties of permutations and their orders. Some participants provide insights into the implications of group order and divisibility, while others suggest examining cycle structures to better understand the problem. There is no explicit consensus reached on the specific counts of elements of certain orders.

Contextual Notes

Participants are working under the constraints of studying for an exam, which may limit the depth of exploration. There is an acknowledgment of the complexity of determining the number of elements of each order in S_6.

VeeEight
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I have two questions, they aren't homework questions but I figured this would be the best place to post them (they are for studying for my exam).

Homework Statement



How many elements of S_6 have order 4? Do any elements have order greater than 7?


Homework Equations



S_6 is the permutation group on {1, 2,..,6}. The order, n, of an element here is a permutation f such that f^n = 1



The Attempt at a Solution



I figured that it wouldn't be wise to check all the elements since there are so many of them. I know the order of an element has to divide the order of the group. The order of S_6 is 6!, which seven does not divide so no elements have order 7 (but there must be an element of order 6 since 6 divides 6!). But there must be an element of order 9 since 9|6!. I am not sure if this logic is correct and how to actually find how many elements there are of each order in general.

Homework Statement



Prove that every odd permutation in S_n has even order


Homework Equations



An odd permutation is a permutation that can be written as a product of an odd number of transpositions (2-cycles). If a permutation is odd then it's sgn is -1


The Attempt at a Solution



My instinct is to incorporte the sgn function into the proof but I am unsure of how to use it.
 
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VeeEight said:
I have two questions, they aren't homework questions but I figured this would be the best place to post them (they are for studying for my exam).

Homework Statement



How many elements of S_6 have order 4? Do any elements have order greater than 7?


Homework Equations



S_6 is the permutation group on {1, 2,..,6}. The order, n, of an element here is a permutation f such that f^n = 1



The Attempt at a Solution



I figured that it wouldn't be wise to check all the elements since there are so many of them. I know the order of an element has to divide the order of the group. The order of S_6 is 6!, which seven does not divide so no elements have order 7 (but there must be an element of order 6 since 6 divides 6!). But there must be an element of order 9 since 9|6!. I am not sure if this logic is correct and how to actually find how many elements there are of each order in general.
You are right about the first argument: since 7 does not divide 6! there are no elements of order 7. However, it is not true that for every divisor of 6! there must be an element with that order. For example, the group A4 (odd permutations in S4) does not have any element of order 6. In general, it's hard to say something about the number of subgroups that do exist; usually the Sylow theorems are useful in such cases.

Homework Statement



Prove that every odd permutation in S_n has even order


Homework Equations



An odd permutation is a permutation that can be written as a product of an odd number of transpositions (2-cycles). If a permutation is odd then it's sgn is -1


The Attempt at a Solution



My instinct is to incorporte the sgn function into the proof but I am unsure of how to use it.
What order does the identity have? What happens to the sign if you compose n odd permutations?
 
As far as counting elements of order 4, can you relate the order of an element to the cycle structure of the permutation in the case where it has order 4? Actually, that can probably help you with the 7 or greater question as well.
 
Last edited:
thanks! I believe I have the answer
 

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