Solving Recursive Sets with Turing Machines

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the characterization of recursive sets in relation to recursively enumerable sets, specifically exploring the conditions under which a set and its complement are recursively enumerable. The focus is on the construction of Turing machines to demonstrate these properties.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • One participant presents a proof that if a set \( A \) is recursive, then both \( A \) and its complement \( A^c \) are recursively enumerable, using Turing machines to illustrate the argument.
  • The same participant argues that if both \( A \) and \( A^c \) are recursively enumerable, then a Turing machine can be constructed to decide \( A \), thus proving that \( A \) is recursive.
  • Several participants confirm the correctness of the initial proof and request further elaboration on the simultaneous simulation of Turing machines \( M_1 \) and \( M_2 \).
  • One participant explains that the input is given to both machines simultaneously and that the machine which halts determines the acceptance or rejection of the input.
  • Another participant expresses satisfaction with the explanation provided.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally agree on the correctness of the initial proof and the subsequent explanations regarding the construction of the Turing machine. However, there is no explicit consensus on further details of the simulation process, as some participants seek clarification.

Contextual Notes

There are no noted limitations or unresolved mathematical steps in the discussion.

Who May Find This Useful

This discussion may be useful for students and researchers interested in computability theory, particularly those studying Turing machines and the properties of recursive and recursively enumerable sets.

mathmari
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Hey! :o

I have to show that a set is recursive if and only if the set and its complement is recursively enumerable.

I have done the following:

$\Rightarrow$
Let $A$ the recursive set, so there is a Turing machine $M$ that decides the set $A$. We construct a TM $M'$ that semi-decides the set $A$. If the TM $M$ accepts the input, then the TM $M'$ accepts the input too. If the TM $M$ doesn't accept the input, then the TM $M'$ doesn't halt on this input.
That means that there is a TM that semi-decides te set $A$. So, any recursive set is recursively enumerable.

If the set $A$ is recursive there is a TM $M$ that decides the set $A$. We construct a TM $M''$ that decides the set $A^c$. If the TM $M$ accepts the input, then the TM $M''$ doesn't accept the input and if the TM $M$ doesn't accept the input, then the TM $M''$ accepts it.

So, if the set $A$ is recursive, the complement is also recursive. So, the set $A^c$ is also recursively enumerable. That means that if the set $A$ is recursive, then the sets $A$ and $A^c$ are recursively enumerable.
$\Leftarrow$
Let $A$ and $A^c$ be recursively enumerable. That means that there are TM $M_1$ and $M_2$ that semi-decides the set $A$ and $A^c$ respectively. We construct a TM $M$ that simulates simultaneously $M_1$ and $M_2$. $M$ accepts the input if $M_1$ accepts it and rejects it if $M_2$ accepts it. Since the input is either in $A$ or in $A^c$ exactly one of $M_1$ or $M_2$ will accept. That means that $M$ will always have the output either "yes" or "no", but will never have both.

That means that there is a TM that accepts $A$. So, $A$ is recursive. Is this correct? Could I improve something?
 
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Yes, this is correct. You may elaborate on "a TM $M$ that simulates simultaneously $M_1$ and $M_2$". How do you do this?
 
Evgeny.Makarov said:
Yes, this is correct. You may elaborate on "a TM $M$ that simulates simultaneously $M_1$ and $M_2$". How do you do this?

The input of $M$, let $w$, is given simultaneously to the TMs $M_1$ and $M_2$ as inputs. One of these two machines will halt. If the machine that halts is $M_1$ the TM $M$ accepts $w$ and if it is $M_2$ then the TM $M$ rejects $w$.

View attachment 4475

Is this correct?
 

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Yes, it's fine.
 
Ok... Thank you! (Smile)
 

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