Solving SI Units with ln(n): A High School Puzzler

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the application of the natural logarithm (ln) to a quantity with SI units, specifically in the context of calculating the logarithm of a viscosity index for a liquid. Participants explore the implications of taking the logarithm of a quantity that includes units and the appropriate handling of those units.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory, Technical explanation, Conceptual clarification

Main Points Raised

  • One participant questions how to handle the SI units when applying ln to a quantity, specifically noting the example of n = 0.00149 kg/m*s.
  • Another participant explains that the multiplication implied between the numerical value and the units leads to a logarithmic expression that includes the logarithms of the units, raising questions about interpretation and purpose.
  • A participant suggests that if the logarithm is used for scaling in a plot, the units remain unchanged, indicating that the transformation is primarily graphical.
  • One participant proposes that it is typically advisable to convert to a dimensionless value before taking the logarithm, suggesting division by an arbitrary constant.
  • Several participants mention the importance of ensuring dimensional consistency in calculations, with one noting that unexpected results, such as taking the square root of a unit, may indicate an error.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express varying views on how to handle SI units when taking logarithms, with no consensus on a definitive approach or rule for such cases. The discussion remains open-ended regarding the best practices for applying logarithmic functions to quantities with units.

Contextual Notes

Participants highlight the need for clarity on the purpose of taking the logarithm and the implications of unit transformations, but do not resolve the underlying complexities or assumptions involved in these calculations.

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I tried with Google but I couldn't find anything, so here goes: When I "use ln on a quantity" (I don't really know how to phrase it in english, as we just have a verb for it), say, I have n = 0.00149 kg/m*s, and I put it into the ln, so now I have ln(0.00149 kg/m*s) what happens to the SI Units? The result of 0.00149 ~-6.508, but I'm not sure on the kg/m*s. It never came up during HS so I now have to fill a board with the ln of various values of n, and I'm not sure what to do with SI.

Any help is appreciated!
 
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The unwritten sign between ##0.00149## and ##\frac{kg}{m \cdot s}## is a multiplication. So ##\ln n \approx -6.51 + \ln kg - \ln m - \ln s## which can hardly be interpreted and thus raises the question: what do you want to express and what's the goal? What should ##\ln n## stand for? If it is only a scaling for some plot, then the units remain as they are, as only the graphic representation of the magnitude of ##n## changes, not the quantity.
 
fresh_42 said:
The unwritten sign between ##0.00149## and ##\frac{kg}{m \cdot s}## is a multiplication. So ##\ln n \approx -6.51 + \ln kg - \ln m - \ln s## which can hardly be interpreted and thus raises the question: what do you want to express and what's the goal? What should ##\ln n## stand for? If it is only a scaling for some plot, then the units remain as they are, as only the graphic representation of the magnitude of ##n## changes, not the quantity.
Yeah, the first thing that popped to my mind was the classic ln(a*b) = lna + lnb as well.

In my case n is the viscosity index of a liquid (alcoholic, specifically). It's not used in any formula or anything, we just have to fill this board (it's for Lab), and for each n, we need the ln. I was just curious whether there was some "rule" about such cases.
 
Normally, you would want to convert to some dimensionless value before you take the logarithm. This could be done by dividing by some arbitrary constant, which you could call n0.
 
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Well, thanks a lot for the help everyone! I appreciate it.
 
FYI, this is actually one way of double checking the validity of your calculations. If you suddenly find yourself taking the square root of for example 5kg, that very often shows something went wrong somewhere.
 
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rumborak said:
FYI, this is actually one way of double checking the validity of your calculations. If you suddenly find yourself taking the square root of for example 5kg, that very often shows something went wrong somewhere.
Thanks for the info, I'll keep it in mind!
 

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