Solving Sudoku: A Logical Approach

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    Logic Sudoku
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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around solving a specific Sudoku puzzle without the aid of a computer or guessing. Participants explore the implications of the puzzle's structure, including the number of solutions it may have and the significance of the clues provided.

Discussion Character

  • Debate/contested
  • Technical explanation
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants assert that the Sudoku does not have a unique solution and claim it has at least 500 solutions, suggesting that a choice must be made to solve it.
  • One participant mentions that clicking a solution-count button on a website confirms the multiple solutions available for the puzzle.
  • Another participant inquires about the lowest number of clues required to yield a unique solution.
  • There is a reference to a paper stating that no solvable Sudoku exists with fewer than 17 clues, with a participant arguing that the current puzzle has only 16 clues due to redundancy.
  • Some participants discuss the concept of redundancy in clues, questioning the usefulness of certain entries in the puzzle.
  • One participant suggests that the puzzle may actually only have 12 clues, prompting further discussion on the implications of clue count on solution uniqueness.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally disagree on the number of solutions and the implications of the clues provided. There is no consensus on the uniqueness of the solution or the redundancy of certain clues.

Contextual Notes

There are unresolved questions regarding the definitions of clues and redundancy, as well as the implications of the number of clues on the uniqueness of solutions. The discussion references external sources for claims about Sudoku puzzles.

Adel Makram
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How to solve the attached Sudoku without computer or a guess?
 

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This sudoku does not have a unique solution, in-fact it has at-least 500 solutions, therefore it is not possible to solve it purely based on logic. (By this I mean you will have to make a choice.)
How do I know it has at-least 500 solutions ? Click the solution-count button http://www.sudokuwiki.org/sudoku.htm. [I've done you the courtesy of typing out the sudoku.]
 
certainly said:
This sudoku does not have a unique solution, in-fact it has at-least 500 solutions, therefore it is not possible to solve it purely based on logic. (By this I mean you will have to make a choice.)
How do I know it has at-least 500 solutions ? Click the solution-count button http://www.sudokuwiki.org/sudoku.htm. [I've done you the courtesy of typing out the sudoku.]
I clicked the link and I filled up the entries then it gave me all numbers (1 to 9) in all blank cells!. So how many solutions?
 
Adel Makram said:
I clicked the link and I filled up the entries then it gave me all numbers (1 to 9) in all blank cells!. So how many solutions?
But I'd already filled the necessary squares for you ?
Click the yellow "solution-count" button at the top right.
 
yes I got it thanks. So what is the lowest number of clues that give a unique solution?
 
certainly said:
This sudoku does not have a unique solution, in-fact it has at-least 500 solutions, therefore it is not possible to solve it purely based on logic. (By this I mean you will have to make a choice.)
How do I know it has at-least 500 solutions ? Click the solution-count button http://www.sudokuwiki.org/sudoku.htm. [I've done you the courtesy of typing out the sudoku.]
If it has "at least 500 solutions" then it does not have a unique solution!

Oops! I misread your response- you did say it does NOT have a unique solution.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
According to http://arxiv.org/abs/1201.0749, no solvable sudoko exists with less than 17 clues. Your sudoku is actually a 16 clue sudoku, because the 5 in the top right corner is redundant.
 
willem2 said:
According to http://arxiv.org/abs/1201.0749, no solvable sudoko exists with less than 17 clues. Your sudoku is actually a 16 clue sudoku, because the 5 in the top right corner is redundant.
What do you mean by redundant?
 
He means you already know it is 5, it's not a useful information.
 
  • #10
Note that 17 clues does not guarantee a unique solution, but you need at-least 17, as the paper quoted by willem2 shows.
willem2 said:
According to http://arxiv.org/abs/1201.0749, no solvable sudoko exists with less than 17 clues. Your sudoku is actually a 16 clue sudoku, because the 5 in the top right corner is redundant.
It's actually only a 12 clue sudoku. You should be able to enter the remaining entries from this.
 
  • #11
certainly said:
Note that 17 clues does not guarantee a unique solution, but you need at-least 17, as the paper quoted by willem2 shows.

It's actually only a 12 clue sudoku. You should be able to enter the remaining entries from this.
Still, I don't understand why do you want to consider all entries on the right upper square redundant? Just because they are on 2 perpendicular lines?
 
  • #12
Adel Makram said:
Still, I don't understand why do you want to consider all entries on the right upper square redundant? Just because they are on 2 perpendicular lines?
No. They aren't clues because you can solve the empty entries in the link from the given ones.
 

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