Somali Pirates seize super tanker

[mheslep]

Another option would be to declare war on Somalia.

If the government can't or won't do anything, go in and clean sweep the coast from Djibouti to Kenya.

If that's not tongue and cheek: Who should declare war, and who should 'go in'?

 

[mheslep]

The US Marines have been fighting piracy and protecting shipping for over 200 years. Of course, they're stretched pretty thin right now, punishing all the Iraqis for attacking us on 9/11.

The Barbary pirates were attacking US flagged vessels.

 

[russ_watters]

... And the Navy hasn't used Marines for shipboard security in something like 150 years.

 

[turbo]

The Barbary pirates were attacking US flagged vessels.

There are currently no US flagged commercial vessels in intercontinental trade anymore. Yes, the Barbary pirates were attacking US commercial vessels, but they were attacking vessels of almost all nations, and when the Marines stomped on them, the Mediterranean became safer for all. Our ancestors had US interests at heart 200+ years ago, but the effort benefited all commercial shipping in that region.

 

[LowlyPion]

... And the Navy hasn't used Marines for shipboard security in something like 150 years.

I'm sure they take to training well.

 

[edward]

OK, tankers are out of the question

Still, I don't think you need billion dollars hardware to deal with the problem. We were talking TOWs, Javelins, Hellfires earlier - for the price of one launcher and few missiles you can put heavy machine gun on many cargo ships, making them much less likely to become targets. When targeted ships start to reply with fire, pirating becomes high risk job and there are less pirates. Right now they don't have to fear anything.

We now need to use stand off weapons. We can not expect a ships crew to get into a fire fight against antiaircraft guns. I am in favor of using the expensive weapons because that is what we have.

The USA has numerous storage facilities containing a variety of suitable missiles. Most of the older TOW missiles will probably end up on the scrap pile anyway.

Given the pirates' emerging new tactics and technologies, such as using 'mother ships' to transport smaller attack boats out to sea, global positioning systems and satellite phones, it should be expected that the range of pirate activity will increase," he said.

Last week, pirates seized their greatest prize yet, the supertanker MV Sirius Star, far south of the Somali coastline. The ship, carrying 2 million barrels of oil and 25 crew members, is now anchored off a Somali port.

Analysts say the Somali gangs have invested much of the estimated $150 million in ransom paid so far in new speedboats equipped with added firepower, including heavy 14.5 mm anti-aircraft machine guns and rocket-propelled grenade launchers — a serious threat to even the largest merchant vessels.

http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5jxCY0MWanMyUjwh42ms-gUK_2tAQD94JG02O1

 

[devil-fire]

It would be a hell of a thing if pirates stole several American made TOW weapons. I'm sure they could would be worth the trouble on the black market.

 

[Borek]

Analysts say the Somali gangs have invested much of the estimated $150 million in ransom paid so far in new speedboats equipped with added firepower, including heavy 14.5 mm anti-aircraft machine guns and rocket-propelled grenade launchers — a serious threat to even the largest merchant vessels.

That changes situation. That's one of the Murphy's laws (Left to themselves, things tend to go from bad to worse) at work.

 

[turbo]

That changes situation. That's one of the Murphy's laws (Left to themselves, things tend to go from bad to worse) at work.

That brings the A-10's back into play. With adequate surveillance adapted to the A-10's response times (they are not the fastest birds in the sky, just about the deadliest to small ships, though) they could put a big dent in piracy. Keep the cargo ships near coastal routes and use land-based A-10s to protect them. If suspicious boats are closing and refuse to respond to hails, sink them.

 

[russ_watters]

I read today that they only have about 20 tankers a day passing through the area. If other merchant ships are more than that, perhaps there are a total of 50 major merchant ships a day. It seems to me the answer would then be to organize convoys. Every 6 hours you get 12-14 ships together with a frigate to escort them through the region. It's about 1500 miles, or a 60 hour trip at 25 knots. You'd need about 20 warships.

 

[Borek]

60 hour trip at 25 knots. You'd need about 20 warships.

That's assuming merchant ships will be able to keep that speed. I strongly doubt. From what I was told about 10 years ago by my uncle (who spent 40 years as a mechanical officer - or whatever it is called - on many ships) small cargo ships go at around 12 knots at best.

 

[russ_watters]

Small cargo ships, yes - we would only be able to protect the big ones this way. The speed of a ship is a function of its size, which means that you're actually pushing the capabilities of the escort ships!

 

[Borek]

Small cargo ships, yes - we would only be able to protect the big ones this way. The speed of a ship is a function of its size, which means that you're actually pushing the capabilities of the escort ships!

Something like speed in knots = 1.4 x the square root of the waterline length of boat in feet?

I think we are far from that. They are just underpowered (partially by design, partially because of the engine wear).

 

[edward]

If they would run in convoys several naval ships could protect a significant number of cargo vessels.

It worked during WWII.

 

[mheslep]

A warning in today's Brett Stevens column:

...A society that erases the memory of how it overcame barbarism in the past inevitably loses sight of the meaning of civilization, and the means of sustaining it.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB122757123487054681.html

 

[Proton Soup]

A warning in today's Brett Stevens column:
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB122757123487054681.html
Sub. reqd.

i didn't need a subscription. good article.

 

[OAQfirst]

I read today that they only have about 20 tankers a day passing through the area. If other merchant ships are more than that, perhaps there are a total of 50 major merchant ships a day. It seems to me the answer would then be to organize convoys. Every 6 hours you get 12-14 ships together with a frigate to escort them through the region. It's about 1500 miles, or a 60 hour trip at 25 knots. You'd need about 20 warships.

That would certainly put a damper on the piracy of tankers. Then the pirates would start looking for other kinds of targets, no?

 

[LowlyPion]

i didn't need a subscription. good article.

Thanks for the link. That certainly coincides with my ideas about how to handle things. The longer the situation is allowed to fester the greater will be the ultimate toll in putting it down. The more ransoms that are paid, the more weapons they can buy and the greater favor they can curry with the more innocent Somalis living in desperate poverty.

The root cause is poverty and a country that has basically ceased to function. But rehabilitating that under the threat of such barbarism should give pause as being in a sense another means of extortion that cannot be tolerated. The only reasonable way forward then is to put it down harshly and make it an unacceptable way for Somalia to consider making progress.

The pirates are enemies of all civilization and until the Somalis come to believe that too, then there seems little choice but to simply make it a shoot on sight free fire zone along the Somali coast.

 

[mgb_phys]

then there seems little choice but to simply make it a shoot on sight free fire zone along the Somali coast.

Oops http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/7749245.stm

 

[Wellesley]

I agree with LowlyPion. The pirates will keep doing what they're doing until someone gets rid of them.

This certainly is not achieved by releasing the pirates back to their country of origin after they are captured. As it was mentioned earlier, convoys are the best way to protect the ships. Safety in numbers.

 

[Proton Soup]

Oops http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/7749245.stm

the vessel did not issue a distress call?

 

[Borek]

Oops http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/7749245.stm

Not judging whether it was a trawler or pirate ship, that's the most logical line of defence and of making things more difficult to deal with - hide pirates behind civilians.

 

[LowlyPion]

It's an unfortunate outcome, but war is not a nice circumstance. If there is any blame it is the pirates. The trawler is from a part of the world that has centuries old piracy problems of its own along the Malacca Straits that has festered as well.

Now that the pirates threaten the oil supply lines to the western developed countries they should expect to be seeing greater action against them. Where once Somalia problems were of little interest because ... well why not just let them kill each other and starve to death - humanitarianism cost too much, if they don't have any oil to interest us.

I guess things have changed.

 

[Proton Soup]

“We have no life. Our last resource is the sea, and foreign trawlers are plundering our fish,” a pirate said when the BBC called.

http://www.newser.com/story/43961/reporters-preteen-daughter-gets-pirates-to-talk.html

maybe if they'd just limit their attacks to fishing boats: http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,457626,00.html

 

[LowlyPion]

What's that old Somali saying?

Teach a man to jack a fishing boat and he can feed his family. Teach him to jack a supertanker and he can retire to villa in the Mediterranean?

 

[Office_Shredder]

What's that old Somali saying?

Teach a man to jack a fishing boat and he can feed his family. Teach him to jack a supertanker and he can retire to villa in the Mediterranean?

He would retire to his beachside property in Somalia, but unfortunately a bunch of pirates took it over.

 

[mgb_phys]

Aren't pirates supposed to bury their treasure under the sand on a desert island?
If you steal a million barrels of oil - doesn't this get a bit recursive?

 

[Office_Shredder]

No, because now the oil is in barrels. In 20 years they come back and dig it up, and it's ready to sell for 150 bucks a pop. No overhead

 

[Cyrus]

This just in. The pirates made off with the loot, capsized, and drown!

AHHAHAAHAHa...

 

[russ_watters]

Karma can be a real ***** sometimes!

 

[LowlyPion]

Link to the story:
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/africa/article5489141.ece

 

[Proton Soup]

oh, the ironies

 

[Borek]

Again, although this tanker is much smaller:

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090326/ap_on_re_af/piracy

 

[arildno]

Let the super tankers crews get licenses to kill pirates.

THAT will put a quick end to the endemic piracy off the Horn of Africa.

 

[russ_watters]

Let the super tankers crews get licenses to kill pirates.

THAT will put a quick end to the endemic piracy off the Horn of Africa.

You don't need a license to kill pirates, you only need a gun. But that's not as straightforward a solution as you think: it is expensive to hire a security crew for a ship and there is no guarantee that it'll work. I'm not sure if a tanker hull will stop an ak-47 round, but I'm certain it won't stop an RPG.