Some questions I am not very sure about

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Homework Help Overview

The discussion revolves around two main topics: the definition of \(0^0\) and the application of the chain rule in calculus. Participants express confusion over the definition of \(0^0\) and its implications in mathematical contexts, as well as exploring the validity of a specific equality related to derivatives.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory, Conceptual clarification, Mathematical reasoning, Assumption checking

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • Participants question the definition of \(0^0\), discussing its treatment in high school versus more advanced contexts. They explore whether it should be considered defined or undefined and the implications of this choice. Additionally, there is inquiry into a chain rule equality and its derivation, with some participants expressing uncertainty about their understanding of the cyclical relation.

Discussion Status

The discussion is active, with various perspectives being shared regarding the definition of \(0^0\). Some participants suggest that there is no universal consensus on the matter, while others provide examples and reasoning related to the chain rule. Guidance has been offered in the form of examples and clarifications, but no explicit consensus has been reached.

Contextual Notes

Participants note that the treatment of \(0^0\) can vary based on context, such as in power series, and that there are differing opinions on whether it should be defined as 1 or left undefined. The discussion also highlights the complexity of the chain rule and its applications in various mathematical scenarios.

VietDao29
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I have some questions that I don't really know for sure, and think that it would be great if you guys can help me out.
In high school, I am taught that:
[tex]a ^ 0 = 1, \ \forall a \neq 0[/tex], and hence 00 is not defined. However, I've recently read an article in Wikipedia that states a0 = 1, and it's also true for a = 0. So I am a little bit confused here.
Is 00 defined? What's the international rule?
---------------
The second question is about the chain rule. I did see someone posted something like:
[tex]\frac{dx}{dy} \frac{dy}{dz} \frac{dz}{dx} = -1[/tex]. However, I am not sure how to arrive at this equality.
I think it should be:
[tex]\frac{dx}{dy} \frac{dy}{dz} \frac{dz}{dx} = \frac{dx}{dz} \frac{dz}{dx} = \frac{dx}{dx} = 1[/tex].
I just wonder if I did make a mistake somewhere? :confused:
Thanks, :smile:
 
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VietDao29 said:
I have some questions that I don't really know for sure, and think that it would be great if you guys can help me out.
In high school, I am taught that:
[tex]a ^ 0 = 1, \ \forall a \neq 0[/tex], and hence 00 is not defined. However, I've recently read an article in Wikipedia that states a0 = 1, and it's also true for a = 0. So I am a little bit confused here.
Is 00 defined? What's the international rule?

I've always tought 0^0 is undefined. I would be surprised if someone said otherwise. There are cases however, where we chose to regard o^0 as 1 in order to simplify the notation. Take a power serie for exemple. We write

[tex]\sum_{k=0}^{\infty}a_k x^k[/tex]

But evaluate that that x=0 and your first term is [itex]a_0 0^0[/itex], which is not defined. But by convention, we chose to regard that term as just [itex]a_0[/itex] just to allow this writing. Otherwise, we'd have to always write power series as

[tex]a_0 + \sum_{k=1}^{\infty}a_k x^k[/tex]

which would be tiresome.
 
Yes, I see your point of simplifying the notation. Thanks, :)
By the way, I found it here, section 1.2 Exponents one and zero.
So in that article, it's just plain wrong, right? The way I see it, the writer is defining 00 to be 1, which is a bit ambiguity, and also it does not seem correct to me...
Should I correct the article?
 
VietDao29 said:
So in that article, it's just plain wrong, right? The way I see it, the writer is defining 00 to be 1, which is a bit ambiguity,
I've seen it being defined as 1 before, I wouldn't correct it since there isn't an international consensus about this.
 
It seems like there should be a note about how this isn't universal and it's sometimes just left as undefined. This has been discussed many times here, so search around if you want more.
 
shmoe said:
It seems like there should be a note about how this isn't universal and it's sometimes just left as undefined. This has been discussed many times here, so search around if you want more.

Warning: Some people take 0^0=1 as obvious. I once heard an NCU Physics professor chew her grad student out because he didn't "know that."

Personally, I have found good arguments to call it either 0 or 1 depending on how you want to look at the situation. So I agree: undefined. (Sorry NCU prof! o:) )

-Dan
 
VietDao29 said:
The second question is about the chain rule. I did see someone posted something like:
[tex]\frac{dx}{dy} \frac{dy}{dz} \frac{dz}{dx} = -1[/tex]. However, I am not sure how to arrive at this equality.
I think it should be:
[tex]\frac{dx}{dy} \frac{dy}{dz} \frac{dz}{dx} = \frac{dx}{dz} \frac{dz}{dx} = \frac{dx}{dx} = 1[/tex].
I just wonder if I did make a mistake somewhere? :confused:
Thanks, :smile:

Actually that looks like the cyclical relation or the cyclical rule (from what I remember). It looks like this:

[tex]\Big(\frac{dx}{dy}\Big)_z\Big(\frac{dy}{dz}\Big)_x\Big(\frac{dz}{dx}\Big)_y=-1[/tex]

where the subscript means "keep fixed" (the first parenthesis means "derivate x wrt y and keep z fixed" and so on).
 
assyrian_77 said:
Actually that looks like the cyclical relation or the cyclical rule (from what I remember). It looks like this:

[tex]\Big(\frac{dx}{dy}\Big)_z\Big(\frac{dy}{dz}\Big)_x\Big(\frac{dz}{dx}\Big)_y=-1[/tex]

where the subscript means "keep fixed" (the first parenthesis means "derivate x wrt y and keep z fixed" and so on).
Uhmm, not very sure if I understand it. Can you give me an example?
Thanks,
 
Sure, consider the equation for the plane,
[tex]ax+by+cz=d[/tex]
and assume that a,b,c are non-zero (I'll set d=0 for simplicity.

Hence, you may if you wish solve for x in terms of y and z:
[tex]x=-\frac{b}{a}y-\frac{c}{a}z[/tex]
Or if you'd rather solve for y in terms of x or z:
[tex]y=-\frac{a}{b}x-\frac{c}{b}z[/tex]
Or you may solve for z in terms of x and y:
[tex]z=-\frac{a}{c}x-\frac{b}{c}y[/tex]

Using the appropriate expression, we may find partial derivatives:
[tex]\frac{\partial{x}}{\partial{y}}=-\frac{b}{a},\frac{\partial{y}}{\partial{z}}=-\frac{c}{b},\frac{\partial{z}}{\partial{x}}=-\frac{a}{c}[/tex]

Multiply these together and get the amusing result.
 
  • #10
Good example. The cyclical relation is quite useful in Thermodynamics / Statistical Mechanics with all the relations between the different variables. Here is an example:

[tex]\Big(\frac{\partial{S}}{\partial{T}}\Big)_{P}\Big(\frac{\partial{P}}{\partial{S}}\Big)_{T}\Big(\frac{\partial{T}}{\partial{P}}\Big)_{S}=-1[/tex]

where S is the entropy, T the temperature and P the pressure.
 
  • #11
The general case is as follows, let G be a function of n variables, and consider the equation for constant G:
[tex]G(x_{1},x_{2},...,x_{n})=K[/tex]
Assume that we have a solution of this equation called [itex]\hat{x}=(\hat{x}_{1},\hat{x}_{2}...,\hat{x}_{n})[/tex].<br /> In a neighbourhood of [tex]\hat{x}[/tex], it should be possible to solve for anyone of the coordinates as some function of the other coordinates, i.e, there should exist n functions of the type:<br /> [tex]x_{i}=X_{i}(x_{1},..x_{j},..,x_{n}), j=1,..,n, j\neq{i}[/tex]<br /> so that we identically have in our region:<br /> [tex]G(x_{1},..,X_{i}(x_{1},..x_{j},..,x_{n}),...,x_{n})=K[/tex]<br /> <br /> By differentiating these relations, we should in particular have:<br /> [tex]\frac{\partial{X}_{i}}{\partial{x}_{i+1}}=-\frac{\frac{\partial{G}}{\partial{x}_{i+1}}}{\frac{\partial{G}}{\partial{x}_{i}}},i=1,..n, x_{n+1}\equiv{x}_{1}[/tex]<br /> <br /> Multiplying all these together, you'll get:<br /> [tex]\prod_{i=1}^{n}\frac{\partial{X}_{i}}{\partial{x}_{i+1}}=(-1)^{n},x_{n+1}\equiv{x}_{1}[/tex][/itex]
 
  • #12
Yes, thanks for all the replies, guys. It's very clear. Thanks, :)
 

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