Some questions relating topology and manifolds

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    Manifolds Topology
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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the criteria for a space to be classified as a topological manifold, specifically focusing on the second countability of \(\mathbb{R}^n\). Participants explore the implications of second countability and separability in the context of metric spaces.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • One participant questions how \(\mathbb{R}^n\) can be second countable, noting that the neighborhood basis for a point \(q\) includes all open sets containing \(q\), which seem uncountable.
  • Another participant suggests considering only balls with rational centers to form a countable basis, proposing that the basis can be defined as \(\mathcal{B}=\{B(q,1/n)~|~q\in \mathbb{Q},~n\in \mathbb{N}_0\}\).
  • A third participant points out that every metric space is first-countable, providing a basis of the form \(\{B(q,1/n): n \in \mathbb{Z}^+\}\).
  • Another participant relates this to calculus, explaining that to demonstrate "for every epsilon there is a delta," it suffices to consider the countable set of \(1/n\) for positive integers, despite the uncountability of real epsilons.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants present various perspectives on the second countability of \(\mathbb{R}^n\) and its implications, but no consensus is reached regarding the initial question posed about the nature of the neighborhood basis.

Contextual Notes

Some assumptions regarding the definitions of second countability and separability are implicit in the discussion. The relationship between metric spaces and their countability properties is also a point of exploration.

Hymne
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Hello there!
I just started reading Topological manifolds by John Lee and got one questions regarding the material.
I am thankful for any advice or answer!

The criteria for being a topological manifold is that the space is second countantable ( = there exists a countable neighborhood basis?).
I can't see why R^n fulfills this criteria.. the neighborhood basis for q is all the open sets that contain q. And if we view these as all the open balls with a radius varying on the reell line, these are not countable due to the incountability of R.. right?

In which way is R^n second countable? :confused:
 
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Take only the balls with rational centers. Thus your basis should be
\mathcal{B}=\{B(q,1/n)~\vert~q\in \mathbb{Q},~n\in \mathbb{N}_0\}

In fact, if your space in metrizable, then the space is second countable if and only if it is separable. And \mathbb{R} is separable, since it contains \mathbb{Q} as countable dense subset...
 
Just to pick up some low-hanging fruit from Micromass' response, you can see how
every metric space is also 1st-countable, by using { B(q,1/n): n in Z+ }.
 
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this is exactly why in calculus, in order to show "for every epsilon there is a delta", it suffices to take epsilon equal to 1/n for all positive integers n. I.e. there are uncountably many real epsilons, but it suffices to look only at the countable set of 1/n's
 

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