Space is Relative: A 17 Yr Old's Exploration

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the concept of "relative space" within the framework of relativity theories, as introduced in Stephen Hawking's "A Brief History of Time." Participants explore the implications of reference frames, spacetime curvature, and specific scenarios like the twins paradox, delving into both theoretical and conceptual aspects of relativity.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant questions the meaning of "relative space," leading to an explanation that it depends on the choice of reference frame, which determines how spacetime is divided into space and time.
  • Another participant asserts that spacetime curvature is caused by the presence of matter and energy, not by an observer's velocity.
  • A different viewpoint suggests that the twins paradox involves a change in course for one twin, which could break symmetry and lead to differing interpretations of time experienced by each twin.
  • Mathematical expressions are provided to illustrate the time experienced by one twin in a rotating frame, highlighting the complexities of inertial and non-inertial reference frames.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the relationship between spacetime curvature and observer velocity, with some asserting that velocity does not affect curvature, while others suggest that the twins paradox introduces complexities that challenge straightforward interpretations. The discussion remains unresolved with multiple competing views present.

Contextual Notes

There are limitations in the assumptions made regarding reference frames and the effects of gravitational fields, as well as the mathematical interpretations presented, which may depend on specific conditions not fully explored in the discussion.

greg_rack
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TL;DR
Since I'm broadly confused :)
Hello everybody, my question may sound stupid, especially speaking of such a mind-blowing and important theory... but here I am!
I'm 17 and I'm reading a fabulous book by Stephen Hawking, "A Brief History of Time", and it introduced me to relativity theories... I literally started looking the world differently, it blew my mind!
But anyway, paradoxically, I think I've understood anything about it, apart from one thing: what do they mean with "relative space"?
 
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greg_rack said:
what do they mean with "relative space"?

That "space" depends on your choice of reference frame, since your choice of reference frame determines how spacetime is split up into "space" and "time". There is no unique way to do this because there is no unique choice of reference frame; all reference frames are equally valid.
 
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PeterDonis said:
That "space" depends on your choice of reference frame, since your choice of reference frame determines how spacetime is split up into "space" and "time". There is no unique way to do this because there is no unique choice of reference frame; all reference frames are equally valid.
Thank you so much, now it's clear!
And also, since spacetime curvature is affected by gravitational fields, how could it be affected by an osberver's velocity(e.g. the twins paradox)?
 
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greg_rack said:
spacetime curvature is affected by gravitational fields

It's really the other way around. Spacetime curvature causes gravitational fields (more precisely, it causes particular kinds of "gravitational fields"--other kinds can be produced in flat spacetime by being inside an accerating rocket). Spacetime curvature itself is caused by the presence of matter and energy.

greg_rack said:
how could it be affected by an osberver's velocity(e.g. the twins paradox)?

It isn't. An observer's velocity has nothing to do with spacetime curvature.
 
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greg_rack said:
I'm 17 and I'm reading a fabulous book by Stephen Hawking, "A Brief History of Time", and it introduced me to relativity theories... I literally started looking the world differently, it blew my mind!

Pick up a copy of Spacetime Physics by Taylor and Wheeler if you want to begin to understand relativity.
 
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greg_rack said:
And also, since spacetime curvature is affected by gravitational fields, how could it be affected by an osberver's velocity(e.g. the twins paradox)?

For the twins to meet again at least one of them have to change his/her course. It could break symmetry between them. Relativity does not always mean equality.

Let her twin get on a merry-go-round and him twin wait at the gate. It takes time T for one around.
On arrival her time is
\sqrt{1-\frac{V^2}{c^2}}\ T = \sqrt{1-\frac{R^2 \Omega^2}{c^2}}\ T = \sqrt{1+\frac{2\Phi}{c^2}} \ T
where R the radius, ##\Omega=\frac{2\pi}{T}## angular velocity, ##\Phi=-\frac{1}{2}R^2\Omega^2## potential energy per mass of centrifugal force which is zero at the center of merry-go-round. She and he agree with their time difference. He in IFR interprets it is due to time dilation by Lorentz transformation with V. She, not in IFR, interprets it is due to potential ##\Phi## in her FR. In his IFR she rotates and in her FR he rotates relatively. IFR or not makes difference.
 
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