Special relativity and quantum mech

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the energy transitions of an atom between its ground state and excited state, specifically focusing on the calculation of photon frequency in the lab frame of reference. The scope includes theoretical considerations of energy equations and the effects of recoil in quantum mechanics.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant proposes that the energy of the photon can be calculated simply using the equation E=(M+Δ - M)c²=hγ, leading to γ=Δc²/h.
  • Another participant asserts that the calculation is indeed straightforward and does not require additional considerations.
  • A different participant suggests that the recoil of the excited atom should be included in the calculations, proposing a more complex energy equation: Energy²=(M+K)²=(M+Δ)²+K², and solving for K (the photon energy).
  • One participant acknowledges the recoil but notes that its contribution is small in common cases, agreeing with the previous formula while providing specific examples of how recoil affects photon energy calculations for hydrogen and sodium.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the necessity of including recoil in the calculations. While some argue that it can be overlooked, others maintain that it should be considered, indicating an unresolved debate on the matter.

Contextual Notes

Limitations include the assumption that recoil can be neglected in certain cases, and the discussion does not resolve the implications of this assumption on the accuracy of the photon energy calculations.

bs vasanth
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An atom can exist in two states , ground state of M and excited state of mass M+Δ , it goes to excited state by absorption of an photon, what is the photon frequency in the in the lab frame of reference ( where the atom is initially at rest )?

A simple energy equation gives the answer:
E=( M+Δ -M)c^{2}=hγ
γ=Δc^{2}/h
But my intuition says that I am overlooking something and can't be that simple..
 
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bs vasanth said:
An atom can exist in two states , ground state of M and excited state of mass M+Δ , it goes to excited state by absorption of an photon, what is the photon frequency in the in the lab frame of reference ( where the atom is initially at rest )?

A simple energy equation gives the answer:
E=( M+Δ -M)c^{2}=hγ
γ=Δc^{2}/h
But my intuition says that I am overlooking something and can't be that simple..

It is that simple.
 
You should include the recoil of the excited atom in the final state.
Use Energy^2=(M+K)^2=(M+Delta)^2+K^2, and solve for K (the photon energy). (with c=1)
 
Meir Achuz said:
You should include the recoil of the excited atom in the final state.
Use Energy^2=(M+K)^2=(M+Delta)^2+K^2, and solve for K (the photon energy). (with c=1)

Yes, I ignored recoil because its contribution is small for common cases. I, of course, agree with the above formula. Note that even for as extreme a case as a 10 Mev delta for a hydrogen atom, including recoil only changes the required photon energy to about 10.05 Mev. For Sodium, to about 10.002 Mev. For delta of 1 Mev and hydrogen, including recoil would require a 1.0005 Mev photon.
 

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