Speed of Light: Is There Anything Faster?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers around the speed of light and whether anything can exceed it, exploring theoretical implications, empirical observations, and the nature of light in various contexts. Participants examine concepts from special relativity, energy-mass equivalence, and the behavior of light in different frames of reference.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants question whether there is an accepted law stating that nothing can exceed the speed of light, suggesting the possibility of undiscovered phenomena.
  • Others assert that there is a universal speed limit that massless objects obey, which cannot be reached by objects with mass.
  • Participants discuss the implications of the equation E=mc², noting that it applies only to objects at rest, while the energy of moving objects can increase without bound as their speed approaches the speed of light.
  • There is a discussion about the nature of light's speed being constant in all inertial frames of reference, regardless of the observer's motion.
  • Some participants express uncertainty about the underlying reasons for the speed limitation, suggesting that theories incorporating this limit yield better experimental predictions.
  • Questions arise regarding the effects of relative motion on the frequency of light, including redshift and blueshift, and how these shifts depend on relative speeds rather than emitted frequencies.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally agree on the constancy of the speed of light in inertial frames, but multiple competing views exist regarding the implications of this constancy, the nature of energy in motion, and the reasons behind the speed limitation. The discussion remains unresolved on several theoretical aspects.

Contextual Notes

Limitations include unresolved assumptions about the nature of light in different mediums and the implications of relativistic effects on energy calculations. The discussion also touches on the definitions of speed in various contexts, such as in flat spacetime versus more complex scenarios.

Anoop Koushik
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Everywhere we see that nothing can go faster than light. Light is the fastest.
Is there any accepted law that states that nothing else can be faster than light?
Or is it just that humans are unable to perceive things which is faster than light?
There might be something faster than light, giving rise to whole new dimension and a different interpretation on understanding the universe.
And also
From E=mc^(2)
Taking c=3x10^(8), m=1kg
E can never exceeded 9x10^(16) for mass of 1kg?
Why can't it exceeded ?
How is that you limit speed of light?
(By 'light' I mean EM waves)
 
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There is a universal speed limit which has been found empirically to be obeyed my massless objects and impossible to reach for objects with any mass. This is not a limitation on our ability to measure things.
 
Anoop Koushik said:
Everywhere we see that nothing can go faster than light. Light is the fastest.
Is there any accepted law that states that nothing else can be faster than light?
Or is it just that humans are unable to perceive things which is faster than light?
There might be something faster than light, giving rise to whole new dimension and a different interpretation on understanding the universe.
And also
From E=mc^(2)
Taking c=3x10^(8), m=1kg
E can never exceeded 9x10^(16) for mass of 1kg?
Why can't it exceeded ?
How is that you limit speed of light?
(By 'light' I mean EM waves)

...Special relativity. Speed varies depending on the observer in relation to a medium--let say, a vacuum or in a black hole. We assume it is C in a flat spacetime.

http://johanw.home.xs4all.nl/PhysFA...ments.html#Measurements_of_the_Speed_of_Light
 
Actually, c is by definition the speed of light in vaccum- that is not an assumption.
 
Anoop Koushik said:
From E=mc^(2)
Taking c=3x10^(8), m=1kg
E can never exceeded 9x10^(16) for mass of 1kg?

No. ##E = mc^2## is only valid for objects at rest; an object in motion can have arbitrarily high energy--its energy increases without bound as its speed approaches the speed of light. The correct formula for moving objects is ##E = \gamma m c^2##, where ##\gamma = 1 / \sqrt{1 - v^2 / c^2}##; obviously ##\gamma## increases without bound as ##v \rightarrow c##, so ##E## does as well.
 
PeterDonis said:
No. ##E = mc^2## is only valid for objects at rest; an object in motion can have arbitrarily high energy--its energy increases without bound as its speed approaches the speed of light. The correct formula for moving objects is ##E = \gamma m c^2##, where ##\gamma = 1 / \sqrt{1 - v^2 / c^2}##; obviously ##\gamma## increases without bound as ##v \rightarrow c##, so ##E## does as well.
Then they formula gives indeterminate valie when v=c ?
phinds said:
There is a universal speed limit which has been found empirically to be obeyed my massless objects and impossible to reach for objects with any mass. This is not a limitation on our ability to measure things.

What is the cause for this speed limitation ?
If you are observe A and I am observer B moving very slowly compared to you, from a fixed point. Light travels at same speed for both of us if we measure?? (If light is originated from that fixed point)
 
Anoop Koushik said:
Then they formula gives indeterminate valie when v=c ?
Exactly. Nothing with mass can travel at c.

What is the cause for this speed limitation ?
Don't know. It is what it is.

If you are observe A and I am observer B moving very slowly compared to you, from a fixed point. Light travels at same speed for both of us if we measure?? (If light is originated from that fixed point)
Exactly. Light travels at c in ALL inertial frames of reference. If you are moving at .9c towards me and turn on a flashlight, I measure the light as moving at c. If you are going AWAY from me at .9c and shine a flashlight towards me, I measure the light as moving at c.

Now in the first case, the light will blue shifted and in the second case it will be red shifted, but it will be traveling at c in all cases.
 
HallsofIvy said:
Actually, c is by definition the speed of light in vaccum- that is not an assumption.
Yes. My wording is used very loosely here sorry lol. C constant is postulate of relativity. We can guarantee C in a flat spacetime. GR C is local. In QM, Speed of light varies as photon can travel slower or faster statistically but constant on average.
 
Anoop Koushik said:
What is the cause for this speed limitation ?
What we know is that theories that include this speed limit make much better predictions about results of experiments than theories that don't. We don't really know why one theory makes better predictions than another. The only thing that can answer that question is a better theory. If there was such a theory, you could ask why that theory is so good, and to answer that, we'd need an even better theory...and so on.

Anoop Koushik said:
If you are observe A and I am observer B moving very slowly compared to you, from a fixed point. Light travels at same speed for both of us if we measure?? (If light is originated from that fixed point)
Yes.
 
  • #10
phinds said:
Exactly. Nothing with mass can travel at c.Don't know. It is what it is.Exactly. Light travels at c in ALL inertial frames of reference. If you are moving at .9c towards me and turn on a flashlight, I measure the light as moving at c. If you are going AWAY from me at .9c and shine a flashlight towards me, I measure the light as moving at c.

Now in the first case, the light will blue shifted and in the second case it will be red shifted, but it will be traveling at c in all cases.
What if I use only one frequency of light? How will the two cases be ?
And if the relative velocity is very huge, then the shift will be greater, but greater to what extent ?
 
  • #11
Regardless of the frequency that is emitted, the received frequency will be red shifted or blue shifted by an amount that depends on the relative speed of the source and receiver, not on the emitted frequency. The ABSOLUTE frequency will depend on the emitted frequency but the % shifting won't.

The larger the speed, the larger the shift.
 

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