Speed of Light vs Refractive Index: Does It Violate Relativity?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the speed of light in various media, such as glass and water, and whether this phenomenon constitutes a violation of the theory of special relativity. Participants explore the implications of the refractive index on the speed of light and its relationship to relativity, addressing both theoretical and conceptual aspects.

Discussion Character

  • Debate/contested
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Technical explanation

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants assert that the speed of light in media is not equal to c (3*10^8 m/s) due to the refractive index, questioning if this represents a violation of special relativity.
  • Others clarify that special relativity states light moves at c only in a vacuum, suggesting that light's reduced speed in media does not contradict relativity.
  • A participant requests a more detailed explanation of why the speed of light in media does not violate special relativity, indicating a desire for deeper understanding.
  • It is noted that the refractive index is frequency dependent, with implications for how light behaves at different frequencies, potentially affecting interpretations of special relativity.
  • One participant emphasizes that special relativity concerns the propagation of events, which occur at very high frequencies that travel at c, thus maintaining that relativity is not violated in transparent media.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on whether the speed of light in media violates special relativity. While some argue it does not, others raise questions that indicate uncertainty and a lack of consensus on the implications of refractive index on relativity.

Contextual Notes

The discussion includes assumptions about the definitions of speed and refractive index, as well as the conditions under which special relativity applies. There are unresolved aspects regarding the implications of frequency dependence on the refractive index and its relation to the speed of light.

dasher
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the speed of light relative to glass, still water, or other media is not 3*10^8 m/s (otherwise known as c). This is due to the refractive index, the refraction of light itself. Is this actually a violation of the theory of special relativity?
 
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dasher said:
the speed of light relative to glass, still water, or other media is not 3*10^8 m/s (otherwise known as c). This is due to the refractive index, the refraction of light itself. Is this actually a violation of the theory of special relativity?
No.
Theory of relativity does NOT say that light always moves with the velocity equal to c=299792.458 km/sec. It says that IF SOMETHING moves with the velocity equal to c, THEN IT moves with that velocity for any observer.
The unfortunate fact is that c is called "the velocity of light", while such a terminology is actually misleading.
 
so does this mean that the statement (or fact): "The speed of light relative to still water is 2.25*10^8 m/s." does not violate the theory of special relativity? However, can a more elaborate explanation be given to why this is so?
 
When we say "the speed of light is always c" according to SR, we always mean "the speed of light in vacuum." We're simply too lazy to write out the complete statement every single time we say it.

Light traveling through a medium does slow down, in effect. This is addressed in the Physics Forums FAQ (located in the General Physics forum):

https://www.physicsforums.com/showthread.php?t=104715
 
dasher said:
so does this mean that the statement (or fact): "The speed of light relative to still water is 2.25*10^8 m/s." does not violate the theory of special relativity? However, can a more elaborate explanation be given to why this is so?

The refractive index is frequency dependent. It may fall below 1 for certain frequency bands (resulting in c>c_0 for example) but it tends towards 1 for frequencies approaching infinity. The latter is a consequence of the observed fact that matter gets more an more transparent for ever higher frequency (x-ray goes through your flesh but not your bones, whereas gamma ray goes through all your body matter).

What really matters for special relativity is the propagation of events, i.e. pointlike instantaneous flashes. Those contain very large frequencies which therefore travel with c. Thus special relativity isn't violated even inside transparent media.
 
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