Spivak's Calculus on Manifolds: Theorem 5-3

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around understanding Theorem 5-3 from Spivak's Calculus on Manifolds, specifically focusing on the independence of the definition of the exterior derivative of a p-form on a manifold from the choice of coordinate system. Participants are exploring the theoretical implications and mathematical reasoning behind this theorem.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Mathematical reasoning
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant expresses difficulty in understanding how the definition of dω(x) is independent of the choice of coordinate system.
  • Another participant suggests demonstrating that using a different coordinate system leads to the same p-form.
  • A further contribution indicates that the problem can be reduced to showing equality involving the components of ω under different coordinate transformations.
  • Concerns are raised about the applicability of the chain rule due to the components being defined only on the manifold.
  • Some participants emphasize the importance of the smoothness of the coordinate transformation and the application of the chain rule in this context.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally agree on the need to show that the definition of dω(x) remains consistent across different coordinate systems, but there is some uncertainty regarding the application of the chain rule and the implications of smoothness in transformations. The discussion remains unresolved in terms of fully clarifying these points.

Contextual Notes

Participants note limitations regarding the definitions of components on the manifold and the conditions under which the chain rule can be applied, highlighting the need for careful consideration of these aspects in their reasoning.

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I am trying to finish the last chapter of Spivak's Calculus on Manifolds book. I am stuck in trying to understand something that seems like it's supposed to be trivial but I can't figure it out.

Suppose M is a manifold and \omega is a p-form on M. If f: W \rightarrow \mathbb{R}^n is a coordinate system around x = f(a) and v_1, \ldots, v_{p+1} \in M_x, there are unique w_1, \ldots, w_{p+1} \in \mathbb{R}_a^k such that f_{\ast}(w_i) = v_i. Define d\omega(x)(v_1, \ldots, v_{p+1}) = d(f^{\ast}\omega)(a)(w_1, \ldots, w_{p+1}).

Now he says that d\omega(x) defined this way is independent of the choice of coordinate system around x. Any hints on how this can be shown?
 
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Take another coordinate system and show that the definition results in the same p-form.
 
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Orodruin said:
Take another coordinate system and show that the definition results in the same p-form.

Taking the suggested path, I reduced the problem to showing for all j, d(\omega_{i_1, \ldots, i_p} \circ g)(b)(w_j^{\prime}) = d(\omega_{i_1, \ldots, i_p} \circ f)(a)(w_j) where \omega_{i_1, \ldots, i_p} are components of \omega, g: V \rightarrow \mathbb{R}^n is another coordinate system around x = g(b), and w_1^{\prime}, \ldots, w_{p+1}^{\prime} \in \mathbb{R}_b^k are the unique vectors such that g_{\ast}(w_i^{\prime}) = v_i.

Now this would follow immediately if we could use chain rule but we can't since the components are defined only on the manifold.
 
Last edited:
You need to use the fact that the coordinate transformation between the two systems is smooth and that you can apply the chain rule for it.
 
Orodruin said:
You need to use the fact that the coordinate transformation between the two systems is smooth and that you can apply the chain rule for it.

Maybe that is what Spivak meant when he says "Precisely the same considerations hold for forms" on page 116.

I see it now, thanks for all your help Orodruin.
 

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