Square of determinant is symmetric

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the claim that the square of any determinant is a symmetric determinant, exploring its implications and the terminology used in various textbooks. Participants examine the definitions and properties of symmetric matrices and determinants, as well as the notation used in the referenced book.

Discussion Character

  • Debate/contested
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification

Main Points Raised

  • One participant states that the square of any determinant is symmetric, noting that this holds true when using row-to-row multiplication but fails with row-to-column multiplication.
  • Another participant questions the definition of a "symmetric determinant," pointing out that a determinant is ultimately a single value.
  • A participant explains that a symmetric matrix is one that remains unchanged when transposed, suggesting that multiplying a matrix by its transpose results in a symmetric matrix.
  • Several participants express confusion over the terminology used in the book, suggesting that it may incorrectly refer to "determinant" when it means "matrix." They propose that the author might be discussing the determinant of a symmetric matrix.
  • One participant critiques the notation used in the book, arguing that it leads to confusion and lacks clarity regarding matrix multiplication and the properties of determinants.
  • A participant mentions that the statement about the square of a determinant being symmetric appears in multiple textbooks, indicating that this is not an isolated claim.
  • Another participant, while agreeing with the critiques, expresses their confusion about the concept and seeks clarification, noting that similar statements appear in other texts as well.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express disagreement regarding the terminology and notation used in the book, with some believing it is incorrect or misleading. There is no consensus on the validity of the claim about the square of a determinant being symmetric, as participants are divided on the interpretation of the terms and properties involved.

Contextual Notes

Participants highlight potential limitations in the book's explanations, including unclear notation and assumptions about matrix operations. The discussion reflects varying interpretations of the terms "determinant" and "symmetric," which may affect understanding.

debjit625
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This property is given in my book.
The square of any determinant is a symmetric determinant.
Well it works when I take a determinant say 3x3 and multiply it by itself using row to row multiplication.
But it fails if I multiply using row to column.

Thanks
 
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What is a symmetric determinate? In which sense is it symmetric? In the end it is a single value.
 
a symmetric matrix is just a matrix that is the same if transposed. if you multiply a matrix by its transpose you will always get a symmetric matrix as a result. this could be what your section on matrixes means.

so here we go working with matrixes. my i hope you have a great day.
 
Thanks fresh_42 and akeleti8
Guys I have the idea what u people are saying but have a look ,of the pic I uploaded its from the book


Thanks
 

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What is the name of the book?
It is not using terms correctly.
I think it means "matrix" where it writes "determinant".
It could be that they are interested in eventually taking the determinant of a matrix.
 
robphy said:
What is the name of the book?
It is not using terms correctly.
I think it means "matrix" where it writes "determinant".
It could be that they are interested in eventually taking the determinant of a matrix.
That was what I thought. Then I took a closer look on its squared matrix. The entry ##(i,j)## of ##A^2## is the product, notated by an ##\times## of the ##j-##th row with the ##i-##th row. A strange notation and usage of the transposed matrix. One has to decode it first.

Edit: So @akeleti8's explanation on the product of a matrix with its transposed is the answer here, only that the book uses a strange way to write and name it.
##A^τ \cdot A## is symmetric because ##(A^τ \cdot A)^τ = A^τ \cdot (A^τ)^τ = A^τ \cdot A##
It seems the author calls a determinate symmetric, if it is the determinate of a symmetric matrix.
Is it a school book?
 
Last edited:
No its a standard college text.there are more books which have this statement just Google the property u would find some .
 
debjit625 said:
No its a standard college text.there are more books which have this statement just Google the property u would find some .
The book might be standard, the notation is not. I just googled "1 bigger than 2" and got more than 107,000,000 hits.
Matrix multiplication is row times column and nothing else. I don't want to find crude new notations. A transposed matrix should be noted as such. The author simply uses of the fact that ##\det(A) = \det(A^τ)## and thus by putting ##\det##, here notated by ##|\,.|##, around the matrices he is allowed to arbitrarily jump between ##\det(A)## and ##\det(A^τ)## or using ##|A| \times |B| = |B| \times |A|## without need or explanation. This confuses the reader without need or any advantage. In addition "symmetric determinate" for "determinate of a symmetric matrix" is more than sloppy. A symmetric real number makes no sense (25,500,000 hits - starting with matrices!).

Edit: The equation in the book goes: ##|A|^2 = |A \cdot A| = |A| \cdot |A| = |A| \cdot |A^τ|## by mentioning that ##A \cdot A^τ## is symmetric. The steps, however, are not mentioned - at least not on the page you showed us.
 
Last edited:
search for "The square of any determinant is a symmetric determinant."
its determinant not determinate(I assume by determinate you mean just the real value).And all those thing you are saying I totally agree .
I am 1st year student of physics honors,may be not a lot but I know a bit about linear algebra and I understand what you are trying to say. But my question is do anybody have any idea what it is? I myself is confused ,because its not only in my book but some other books are too showing this ...

Here are some books which you can find in google books review
A Textbook of Matrices by Hari Kishan.
A Treatise on the Theory of Determinants
By Thomas Muir, William Henry Metzler

@robphy
"I think it means "matrix" where it writes "determinant"."
No we have separate chapter for matrix.

Thanks

 

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