Stability of the equilibrium at (0,0)

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    Equilibrium Stability
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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the stability of the equilibrium point at (0,0) for the system defined by the equations x' = y - x^3 and y' = -x^5. Participants explore the implications of the Jacobian matrix and eigenvalues, questioning the nature of stability and the basin of attraction for the origin.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • One participant calculates the Jacobian matrix and finds that the eigenvalues are both zero, leading to questions about the stability of the equilibrium point and the nature of the basin of attraction.
  • Another participant suggests that the trajectory spirals clockwise around the origin but is uncertain whether it spirals in or out, proposing that it may behave differently in different regions.
  • A later reply reiterates the uncertainty about the spiraling behavior and discusses the implications of the eigenvalues being zero, suggesting that the origin is not an isolated fixed point.
  • Some participants mention the need to understand terms like "stable" or "asymptotically stable" and how they relate to eigenvalues, indicating a lack of consensus on definitions and implications.
  • One participant describes the behavior of the system using a function f and its derivative, suggesting that the trajectory does not remain on the y-axis except at the origin, which may influence the limit set of the system.
  • Another participant emphasizes that the zero eigenvalues imply a flat behavior around the equilibrium point, suggesting that linear approximations are insufficient to fully understand the system's properties.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express multiple competing views regarding the stability and behavior of the system around the equilibrium point. There is no consensus on whether the origin is stable or the nature of the trajectories in its vicinity.

Contextual Notes

Participants highlight limitations in understanding the stability due to the zero eigenvalues, indicating that higher-order terms may be necessary to analyze the system's behavior accurately. There is also mention of confusion regarding graphical representations of the system.

Akibarika
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x'=y-x^3 and y'=-x^5

I've worked the jacobian which is
[-3x^2 1;-5x^4 0] and the equilibrium is at (0,0)
so jac = [0 1;0 0]

and eigenvalues are both 0

so is the stability non isolated point? and what i can say about the basin of attraction of the origin?

Could anyone help me?

thanks a lot
 
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Not an area I know much about, but here goes...

It's fairly clear that the trajectory spirals clockwise around the origin. Question is, does it spiral in or out? Maybe it spirals in within some annulus and out in another.
For |y| >> |x5|, it approximates the ellipse-like curves 3y2+x6 = c. So set f(x,y) = 3y2+x6 and calculate f'. This pretty much settles the overall behavior, I think.
 
haruspex said:
Not an area I know much about, but here goes...

It's fairly clear that the trajectory spirals clockwise around the origin. Question is, does it spiral in or out? Maybe it spirals in within some annulus and out in another.
For |y| >> |x5|, it approximates the ellipse-like curves 3y2+x6 = c. So set f(x,y) = 3y2+x6 and calculate f'. This pretty much settles the overall behavior, I think.

but using the λ^2-τ*λ+Δ=0

if Δ=0 at least one of the eigenvalues is zero. then the origin is not an isolated fixed point. there is either a whole line of fixed points or a plane of fixed points if A=0

Spirals only satisfy τ^2-4*Δ<0.

I don't know how to draw it and pplane and XPP just confuse me.

Thanka a lot
 
Google for the terms "stable" or "asymptotically stable" statioary point. First you have to
understand this terms and then you will find a characterization based on the eigenvalues.
 
Akibarika said:
but using the λ^2-τ*λ+Δ=0
if Δ=0 at least one of the eigenvalues is zero. then the origin is not an isolated fixed point. there is either a whole line of fixed points or a plane of fixed points if A=0
Spirals only satisfy τ^2-4*Δ<0.
As I said, I'm ignorant of the theory - just working from first principles.
dy/dx = -x5/(y-x3). This is zero on the y-axis and infinite elsewhere along y = x3. For y > x3 > 0, it is negative; for y < x3 > 0 positive, etc. This certainly makes it look like spirals.
Now consider f = 3y2+x6. f' = 6yy'+6x5x' = -6yx5 + 6x5y - 6x8 = - 6x8
So f (which is everywhere >= 0) is reducing with time everywhere except on the y-axis. But the trajectory does not stay on the y-axis except at the origin, so if the limit set includes points off the origin it also includes points of the y-axis. Since the value of f constrains those of |x| and |y|, x and y must tend to a limit of 0.
 
The fact that the functions are 0 there mean it is, as you say, an equlibrium- nothing happens there! It is like you were sitting at the top of a hill of bottom of a depression. The fact that the eigenvalues are all 0 means that nothing is happening around the point! It is so flat, in some area around the point, that there no "motion" around the point. Essentially that says that linear approximations (which is what the Jacobean gives you- a linear approximation around the given point) are not enough and you will have to allow higher powers to learn anything about the properties of the system.
 

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