Statistical Physics: Solving C_P & Problem 4

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Homework Help Overview

The discussion revolves around problems from statistical physics, specifically focusing on the calculation of heat capacity at constant pressure (C_P) and related thermodynamic concepts. The original poster seeks assistance with Problem 3 part a and Problem 4 from a homework assignment.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory, Conceptual clarification, Mathematical reasoning, Problem interpretation

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • The original poster attempts to derive an explicit expression for dQ using the first law of thermodynamics and questions which variables should be treated as independent. Some participants suggest definitions and relationships involving C_P and provide insights into integrating equations related to heat.
  • There are inquiries about the validity of inverting certain partial derivatives and the implications of differentiating thermodynamic functions while holding other variables constant.
  • Participants discuss the conditions under which certain mathematical relationships hold true, particularly in the context of thermodynamics.

Discussion Status

The discussion is ongoing, with various participants offering definitions and suggesting approaches to the problems. There is a mix of mathematical reasoning and conceptual exploration, with no explicit consensus reached on the best path forward. Some guidance has been provided regarding the integration of equations and the treatment of variables.

Contextual Notes

The original poster expresses uncertainty about how to proceed with the problems, indicating potential gaps in understanding or missing information regarding the functions involved. The discussion also reflects the complexity of the relationships between thermodynamic variables and the need for careful consideration of assumptions in the analysis.

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[SOLVED] statistical physics

Homework Statement


http://ocw.mit.edu/NR/rdonlyres/Physics/8-044Spring-2004/85482B93-6A5E-4E2F-ABD2-E34AC245396C/0/ps5.pdf
I am working on number 3 part a.
I am trying to calculate C_P.
From the first law of thermodynamics: [itex]dQ = dU -dW = dU +PdV[/itex] (does anyone know how to write the inexact differential d in latex?).
And we know that [itex]C_p \equiv \frac{dQ}{dT}_P[/itex]. But I don't see how to get an explicit expression for dQ. Should I expand dU and dV in terms of the other independent variables or what? What variables should I choose to be independent?

EDIT: I actually need help with Problem 4 also. I can integrate (dS/dA)_T w.r.t A and get that
[tex]S(A,T) = -\frac{NkT}{A-b}+\frac{aN^2}{A^2} +f(T)[/tex] but then I have no idea how to find f(T)!

Homework Equations





The Attempt at a Solution

 
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A good definition for [itex]c_P[/itex] is

[tex]c_P=\frac{1}{N}\left(\frac{\partial H}{\partial T}\right)_P=\frac{1}{N}\left[\frac{\partial (U+PV)}{\partial T}\right]_P[/tex]

Recall that for an ideal gas [itex]dU=Nc_V\,dT[/itex].

Once you find [itex]c_P[/itex] you should be able to integrate your equation for [itex]\delta Q[/itex] as

[tex]Q=\int Nc_P\,dT[/tex]
 
Regarding your second question: try inverting [itex]\left(\frac{\partial T}{\partial \mathcal{S}}\right)_A[/itex] and using

[tex]d\mathcal{S}=\left(\frac{\partial \mathcal{S}}{dT}\right)_A dT+\left(\frac{\partial \mathcal{S}}{dA}\right)_T dA[/tex]
 
Mapes said:
Regarding your second question: try inverting [itex]\left(\frac{\partial T}{\partial \mathcal{S}}\right)_A[/itex] and using

[tex]d\mathcal{S}=\left(\frac{\partial \mathcal{S}}{dT}\right)_A dT+\left(\frac{\partial \mathcal{S}}{dA}\right)_T dA[/tex]

Is it in general true that

[tex]1/\left(\frac{\partial T}{\partial \mathcal{S}}\right)_A = \left(\frac{\partial \mathcal{S}}{\partial T} \right)_A[/tex]

?
 
In my experience, it always works in thermodynamics. Outside engineering it may be risky. Mathematicians, want to weigh in?
 
Mapes said:
In my experience, it always works in thermodynamics. Outside engineering it may be risky. Mathematicians, want to weigh in?

Yes, it would really help me if a mathematician posted exactly when that is true.
 
anyone?
 
I assume that notation means you're "Treating S (resp. T) as a function of A and T (resp. S), and differentiating, holding A as constant"?

Or more precisely, S, T, and A are functions of your state [itex]\xi[/itex], and you have a relationship

[tex]S(\xi) = f( T(\xi), A(\xi) )[/tex]

and you're interested in [itex]f_1(T(\xi), A(\xi))[/itex], the partial derivative of this function with respect to the first place, evaluated at [itex](T(\xi), A(\xi)[/itex]?


Well, for any particular value of A, this is just ordinary, one variable calculus -- let [itex]f_a[/itex] denote the function defined by [itex]f_a(x) = f(x, a)[/itex]. If [itex]f_a[/itex] is invertible, then it's easy to find a relationship: just differentiate the identity [itex]x = f_a( f_a^{-1}(x))[/itex].


For a more geometric flavor, if restricting to a subspace where A is constant means that the differentials dS and dT are proportional (i.e. dS = f dT for some f), then it's just a matter of algebra to express dT in terms of dS where possible.
 
Last edited:
So it is in general true (as long as we assume differentiability of the function and its inverse and do not divide by 0)! Yay!
 

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