Strategy in solving vector equations involving grad, scalar product operators?

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Homework Help Overview

The discussion revolves around strategies for solving vector equations that involve the gradient operator and scalar products, specifically focusing on expressing a function \Lambda in terms of a directional derivative equation involving a vector \mathbf U and a function \Phi.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory, Conceptual clarification, Mathematical reasoning, Assumption checking

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • Participants explore the concept of directional derivatives and question the feasibility of expressing \Lambda in a concise analytical form. Some suggest using vector identities or simpler cases to approach the problem.

Discussion Status

There is a mix of perspectives on the problem's solvability. Some participants express skepticism about finding a unique solution due to the infinite possibilities for derivatives, while others provide insights into potential methods for expressing \Lambda, indicating a productive exchange of ideas.

Contextual Notes

Participants note the complexity of the problem, including the implications of choosing different coordinate systems and the presence of arbitrary constants in potential solutions. There is also mention of the need for further exploration of coordinate transformations.

jason12345
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What is the general strategy in solving vector equations involving grad and the scalar product?

In particular, I want to express \Lambda in terms from \mathbf U \cdot \nabla\Lambda = \Phi but it looks impossible, unless there is some vector identity I can use.

Thanks in advance.
 
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Hi jason12345! :smile:

What you have there is a directional derivative.
See for instance wiki: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Directional_derivative

If U is for instance a unit vector, then:
\vec U \cdot \vec\nabla \Lambda(\vec x) = \Phi(\vec x)
is also written as:
\vec\nabla_{\vec U} \Lambda(\vec x) = \Phi(\vec x)

You can find \Lambda with for instance something like:
\Lambda(\vec x) = \int \Phi(\vec x + u \vec U) du
 
I like Serena said:
Hi jason12345! :smile:

What you have there is a directional derivative.
See for instance wiki: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Directional_derivative

If U is for instance a unit vector, then:
\vec U \cdot \vec\nabla \Lambda(\vec x) = \Phi(\vec x)
is also written as:
\vec\nabla_{\vec U} \Lambda(\vec x) = \Phi(\vec x)

You can find \Lambda with for instance something like:
\Lambda(\vec x) = \int \Phi(\vec x + u \vec U) du

That's given me a lot to think about - thanks!

Maybe I could try for something simpler to start with so:

How would I find \nabla\Lambda as the other terms with U independent of (x,y,z)?

Perhaps I could use some vector identity?
 
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I don't think it's possible to solve. There's an infinite number of solutions, even after we disregard the ones that are off by a constant.

To illustrate this, suppose we want to construct a Λ such that U⋅∇Λ=Φ is satisfied. The left hand side is a sum of three terms: Ux*dΛ/dx, Uy*dΛ/dy, and Uz*dΛ/dz. For any point, we literally have absolute power to set dΛ/dx to whatever we want. After that, we have absolute power to choose any value for dΛ/dy. There's an infinite number of choices for dΛ/dx, and for each of those choices, there's an infinite number of choices for the other two derivatives.

This is analogous to a normal dot product, say a*(0,0,1)=0.5. The only thing this equation tells you is that the x component of a is 0.5. The y and z components can be anything, so it's not possible to solve for a in the sense of writing a concise analytical expression that captures all solutions.
 
In the example a*(1,0,0)=0.5 you can indeed say that the x-component is 0.5.
So the solution is a=(0.5,y,z) with 2 unknown variables y and z.


Similarly, if you know for instance that U=(1,0,0), the expression in the OP (\boldsymbol U \cdot \nabla \Lambda = \Phi) reduces to:
\frac {\partial \Lambda} {\partial x} = \Phi
So:
\Lambda = \int \Phi dx + C(y,z)
And:
\nabla \Lambda = \begin{pmatrix} \Phi(x,y,z) \\ \frac {\partial} {\partial y} C(y,z) \\ \frac {\partial} {\partial z} C(y,z) \end{pmatrix}

You can also see here that it is not simpler to solve for \nabla \Lambda.
You need to find \Lambda first.


When U is not aligned with an axis, you will need to make a coordinate transformation in such a way that U is mapped to for instance (1,0,0).
Then you can use this same procedure.

As yet, I don't have a nice complete formula that includes the coordinate transformation though. That will take a bit of mind-benchpressing first. :smile:
 
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