Study in Canada or the UK to become a physicist?

[Brianna]

Hello everyone. I am an international student going for my undergraduate studies in physics. I want to go to the University of Toronto and the University of Manchester, but I am unable to choose between the two. Which of the two universities is best to study physics, can give me a better chance of success, and help me complete my Ph.D. quickly? People say going to Canada will secure a job and PR once I graduate, but the UK needs only 4 years to complete bachelor's and master's, as opposed to 5 years in Canada. My ultimate goal is to become a physicist and work in a really good field wherever it may be in the world.

 

[Frabjous]

I cannot speak to the universities, but there are few reasons to get a master’s before applying to Ph.D. programs. This is a US perspective.

 

[Choppy]

but the UK needs only 4 years to complete bachelor's and master's, as opposed to 5 years in Canada.

Typically in Canada it's six years... four years for a BSc plus two more for an MSc.

Something to consider though, is that it's rare for someone to do all of their degrees at the same institution (at least in the Canadian system). And really, you have to look more at the details, particularly for graduate school... what subfield you want to get into, the specifics of your project, who your supervisor will be, etc. For Canadian universities, when it comes to undergraduate education, the differences between schools tends not to be as wide as it can be in other places (though I can't speak specifically to the UK system). Canadian undergraduate physics programs tend to be reasonably uniform in my experience, and so that allows you to factor in other parameters into your decision... cost of living, geography, tuition, facilities available to students, co-op programs.

cannot speak to the universities, but there are few reasons to get a master’s before applying to Ph.D. programs. This is a US perspective.

In Canada it's rare for students to go straight from a BSc to a PhD program. It's a lot more common to enroll in an MSc first. That said, the MSc typically comes with financial support and students can either transfer into the PhD after their first year or so of the MSc or complete the MSc and then enroll in a PhD program, with the MSc coursework counting toward that of the PhD.

One of the main advantages of this approach is that it allows the student to enroll in graduate studies without committing to a 4+ year project. If it turns out you don't like the particular sub-field, or project or supervisor as much as you thought you might, you can complete the MSc and move on.

 

[gwnorth]

The reason that an undergraduate degree in England at least is typically 3 years is because high school there is 5 years vs 4 as in Canada and the US. The 5th year of high school is somewhat comparable to first year of university in Canada and the US. Most US and Canadian students applying to UK schools will present with AP courses which are more advanced than the typical high school curriculum helping to bridge that gap between the typical Canadian/US high school curriculum and English A levels. Are you certain that you can apply directly from your high school program into first year at a UK school? I have seen some universities in Europe require applicants from some countries to complete a first year of university in their home country first.

The other thing you should compare is a 1 year Master's program in the UK vs a 2 year Master's in Canada. In Canada a 2 year Master's degree leading to a PhD will include a thesis. At many schools however if your marks are high enough they will allow you to transfer after the first year of the Master's to the PhD program bypassing the thesis requirement and saving a year. My understanding is that a 1 year Master's in the UK is not thesis based.

Finally other than the immigration considerations, another thing you may want to look into is the opportunity for research and internships. In Canada many schools offer co-op or internship opportunities. While this can add an extra year to the undergraduate degree depending on how the internship program is structured, it also allows for a stronger graduate school application and work experience in the event that you opt not to continue to graduate school.

 

[StatGuy2000]

The reason that an undergraduate degree in England at least is typically 3 years is because high school there is 5 years vs 4 as in Canada and the US. The 5th year of high school is somewhat comparable to first year of university in Canada and the US. Most US and Canadian students applying to UK schools will present with AP courses which are more advanced than the typical high school curriculum helping to bridge that gap between the typical Canadian/US high school curriculum and English A levels. Are you certain that you can apply directly from your high school program into first year at a UK school? I have seen some universities in Europe require applicants from some countries to complete a first year of university in their home country first.

The other thing you should compare is a 1 year Master's program in the UK vs a 2 year Master's in Canada. In Canada a 2 year Master's degree leading to a PhD will include a thesis. At many schools however if your marks are high enough they will allow you to transfer after the first year of the Master's to the PhD program bypassing the thesis requirement and saving a year. My understanding is that a 1 year Master's in the UK is not thesis based.

Finally other than the immigration considerations, another thing you may want to look into is the opportunity for research and internships. In Canada many schools offer co-op or internship opportunities. While this can add an extra year to the undergraduate degree depending on how the internship program is structured, it also allows for a stronger graduate school application and work experience in the event that you opt not to continue to graduate school.

It used to be the case in the province of Ontario in Canada that high school was 5 years, with the last year (called the OAC year) consisting of courses comparable to first year college/university in the US, or the A-levels or O-levels in the UK. However, back in 2003, the province decided to scrap the 5th year OAC program.

The province of Quebec still has the equivalent of the A-levels, taught at CEGEP (the provincial equivalent of community college).

I should also point out that not all Masters programs in Canadian universities last 2 years, nor do these programs always require a thesis. For example, the Masters program in physics at the University of Toronto is a 1 year program.

 

[George Jones]

The reason that an undergraduate degree in England at least is typically 3 years is because high school there is 5 years vs 4 as in Canada and the US.

Technically, there are 5 years of high school in British Columbia, where my daughter is going into grade 10. This is because high school here starts with grade 8, not because there is added material in an extra year at the end.

It used to be the case in the province of Ontario in Canada that high school was 5 years, with the last year (called the OAC year) consisting of courses comparable to first year college/university in the US

I have extensive experience both with OAC physics, and with first-year university physics in the US. I do not think that they are comparable.

 

[StatGuy2000]

Technically, there are 5 years of high school in British Columbia, where my daughter is going into grade 10. This is because high school here starts with grade 8, not because there is added material in an extra year at the end.I have extensive experience both with OAC physics, and with first-year university physics in the US. I do not think that they are comparable.

That's interesting that in BC (that's British Columbia for those outside of Canada) high school starts at Grade 8.

As for OAC physics -- yes, I was being somewhat simplistic that they are not that comparable to a first year university physics course (at least in Canadian universities). OAC calculus or linear algebra are more comparable (in particular to the less rigorous courses for those outside of math programs). I believe they are more comparable to A-level courses in the UK, however.

 

[gwnorth]

That's interesting that in BC (that's British Columbia for those outside of Canada) high school starts at Grade 8.

Well if you want to get technical about it, high school in Quebec is also 5 years as it encompasses grades 7 to 11. In Ontario and most other provinces as well as in the US, students in grade 7-8 would either still be in elementary or middle school. It's purely semantics however since, with the exception of Quebec, the total number of years of schooling to high school graduation are the same, unlike in England where they complete an extra year. In some ways English AS + A levels could be considered similar to Quebec CEGEP. Undergraduate degrees at Quebec universities for students who completed high school + 2 years of CEGEP in Quebec are also 3 years in duration. For students attending Quebec universities from outside of Quebec they are first required to complete year 0, making for 4 years of study at the undergraduate level. As for high school previously being 5 years in Ontario, in my day the 5th year wasn't OAC, it was grade 13, though I'm not sure if the curriculums were comparable.

In any case, all that aside, my point was that in terms of curriculum, it can potentially be a big leap going from traditional grade 12 to first year university in England as students there who have completed A levels are more advanced. The OP will have less of a leap attending university in Canada but the corresponding offset is an extra year of studies.