'Subducing head': pneumatic engine idea

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around a proposed concept for a pneumatic engine called a 'subducing head'. Participants explore the mechanics of the design, its feasibility, and the principles of physics that govern such devices. The conversation includes theoretical considerations, challenges to the design, and reflections on energy conservation.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • The initial concept involves applying pressure on one side of a shape within an air compression chamber to create movement.
  • Some participants argue that the mechanical power produced cannot exceed the product of the pressure difference and the volume of airflow, questioning the design's viability.
  • One participant points out the absence of an exhaust and questions how airflow would be maintained, suggesting the device would settle in one position.
  • Concerns are raised about the complexity of the design and the necessity of adhering to principles such as conservation of energy.
  • Another participant mentions that the design may resemble a perpetual motion machine, which is not acceptable in the forum's discussions.
  • There is a discussion about the potential for sliding friction to be overcome by the pressure, but doubts are expressed regarding the overall energy flow and efficiency of the design.
  • Participants emphasize the importance of understanding existing machines and the principles of energy before pursuing new inventions.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally disagree on the feasibility of the proposed pneumatic engine. While some express interest in the idea, others firmly reject it based on fundamental principles of physics and engineering.

Contextual Notes

Participants highlight limitations in the design related to airflow, energy conservation, and the complexity of the mechanism, but do not resolve these issues.

Who May Find This Useful

Individuals interested in pneumatic systems, engineering design, and the principles of energy conservation may find this discussion relevant.

Uncanny3
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Hi,
I want to share my thought on what I have called a 'subducing head',
it's a pneumatic engine.
Here's the first drawing==>
gofund me power areas hand drawing.png

The concept is to apply more pressure on one side of a shape within an air compression chamber.
So the red squares are areas of pressure, which don't occur on the other side of the shape,
as the steps mating(wrung) allow the backward pressure face to be culled. Their area in practice ceases to exist.
However this does mean that the feet have to move uphill, and the air pressure will jam them outward,
meaning that inclination has to be overcome.
Would this provide circular movement?
-The thing about this motor, is that requires no more force than compression, it doesn't need relief.
Here's a 3d model:-
gofund me perspective.png

...and the forward pressure areas of such:-
gofund me power areas.png

I would like to share, and get this built. Do you think it would work?
...I'd love anyone to get involved
If you'd like to help, please reply with your thoughts
-I hope this is interesting,
if you would just like to comment on why or why this doesn't work,
I'd be curious to hear
Cheers
 
Last edited:
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Welcome to PF.

No, it will not work.

The mechanical power produced by a pneumatic motor cannot exceed the product of the pressure difference by the volume of airflow.

Where is the air inlet, and where is the air exhaust?
There can be no flow. It will settle in one position.
 
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thanks!
there is no exhaust, the inlet is a push fitting in the sealed outer plate(which isn't shown)
the conjecture is that there is more area on one side of the feet,
allowing a not infinitesimal pressure(either) to exist

the backwards face of the feet is flat to the outer case, so they do not catch the usually equal compression

they are pushed, I put contentiously, but can they climb while they are jammed into the outer?
 
There are principles, such as conservation of energy, that must be obeyed in engineering. You have designed something so complex that you cannot understand how it works all at one time. By focusing on a small difference in area, you have neglected the supply of energy from the through-flow of air. The steepness of the ramp will exactly balance the difference in the small areas. Air will leak between the ramp and the slider, so the slider will actually have a balanced area of equal pressure air. If you turn it by hand, it will make a noise, you must provide that noise energy by hand.

There can be no airflow through the device. Where does the energy come from, that must overcome the sliding friction? It appears you have designed a "perpetual motion machine", something that we do not discuss on this forum.
 
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it's meant to be energy in psi,
which overcomes sliding friction by being vast, if needed

the noise will be a click, if it surprisingly did anything

-I agree, the steepness of the ratchet-like form can overcome movement perfectly

thanks so much for your thoughts

I find that interesting, that the partial un-meeting of faces may be darn near entire
 
Uncanny3 said:
it's meant to be energy in psi, which overcomes sliding friction by being vast, if needed
To awaken from a beautiful dream, is always sad, but there is no such thing as a free lunch, free energy, or perpetual motion.

Unfortunately, energy has different dimensional units to pressure.
To determine if you are dreaming, you must follow the flow of energy.

Before inventing new machines, study how existing machines operate. Be brave. Take faulty things apart, identify how they work, their problems, and maybe fix or improve some.

Learn to ask yourself questions, then answer them, then question your answers.
If you still don't know, ask others. That is why we are here.
 
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And with those wise words from @Baluncore this thread is now closed.

@Uncanny3 -- It is a very good thing to be creative and strive to think up creative ideas, but be sure to keep taking science and math classes, so you can consider things like conservation of energy, etc., in your creative work. A big part of being successfully creative is to be able to quickly arrive at "non-existence proofs" for some of your ideas that cannot work, so you can understand why they would not work and move on to better versions and alternate ideas. :smile:
 
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