Subtraction of Christoffel symbol

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    Christoffel Symbol
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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the proof that the torsion tensor is indeed a tensor, specifically through the subtraction of Christoffel symbols. Participants explore the implications of coordinate-free definitions and linearity in the context of tensors, as well as the transformation properties of Christoffel symbols.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant asks how to prove that the torsion tensor is a tensor using the subtraction of Christoffel symbols, noting an awareness of the relationship between them.
  • Another participant suggests using the law of transformation of Christoffel symbols under a change of local coordinates.
  • A different participant explains that the transformation of the difference between two connections results in the inhomogeneous term dropping out, indicating that this difference transforms as a tensor.
  • One participant provides a detailed coordinate-free definition of the torsion tensor and outlines the necessary steps to show its linearity in both arguments, emphasizing the importance of coordinate-free definitions in establishing tensor properties.
  • Another participant expresses appreciation for the structured explanation provided, highlighting its clarity.
  • Several participants question whether linear operations with coordinate-free definitions are always tensors, seeking clarification on the relationship between these concepts.
  • A participant explains that a tensor is a multilinear function on vectors and covectors, and emphasizes that proving linearity in both arguments suffices to establish tensor status.
  • Concerns are raised about the potential confusion between components of tensors and their coordinate-free definitions, using the connection coefficients as a counter-example.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express varying degrees of understanding regarding the relationship between coordinate-free definitions and tensor properties. While some agree on the importance of linearity and coordinate-free definitions, others seek further clarification, indicating that the discussion remains unresolved on certain points.

Contextual Notes

There are unresolved questions regarding the generality of the statement that linear operations with coordinate-free definitions are always tensors, as well as the implications of specific examples provided in the discussion.

mertcan
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hi, How do we prove the torsion tensor is a tensor using the subtraction of christoffel symbols?? I am aware of the fact that subtraction of christoffel symbols equals the torsion. How can we use this fact to prove the tensor?? Could you please give the proof or share the link which prove it??
 
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use the law of transformation of the Christoffel symbols under the change of local coordinates
 
Carroll shows this in great detail. If you write down the transformation of the difference between two connections, the inhomogeneous term drops out. This is because the inhomogeneous term is symmetric in the lower indices. As such this difference transforms as a tensor.

You're asking different questions, so maybe it's a good idea to tell us what your background and literature is. This should help if you have any further questions.
 
mertcan said:
hi, How do we prove the torsion tensor is a tensor using the subtraction of christoffel symbols?? I am aware of the fact that subtraction of christoffel symbols equals the torsion. How can we use this fact to prove the tensor?? Could you please give the proof or share the link which prove it??

A general rule of thumb is that if you can define an operation without mentioning a particular coordinate system, then it is a coordinate-free definition, and linear operations with coordinate-free definitions are (almost?) always tensors. So a way to show that T is a tensor is to show:
  1. There is a coordinate-free way to define T(U,V)
  2. T(U,V) is linear in both U and V
The coordinate-free definition of T(U,V) is this:

T(U,V) = \nabla_U V - \nabla_V U - [U,V]

where \nabla_U means the covariant derivative, or directional derivative along U, and where [U,V] is the vector field defined by its action on a scalar field:

\nabla_{[U,V]} \phi \equiv \nabla_U (\nabla_V \phi) - \nabla_V (\nabla_U \phi)

So T(U,V) has a coordinate-free definition. Now, you have to show that it is linear in U and V. Since T(U,V) = -T(V,U), it's enough to show that T(U,V) is linear in U. So let \bar{U} \equiv \phi U + W, where \phi is a scalar field, and W is a vector field. Then we need to show that T(\bar{U}, V) = \phi T(U,V) + T(W,V)

T(\bar{U},V) = \nabla_{\bar{U}} V - \nabla_V \bar{U} - [\bar{U},V]

Using properties of covariant derivatives, we have:

\nabla_{(\phi U + W)} V = \phi \nabla_U V + \nabla_W V
\nabla_V (\phi U + W) = (\nabla_V \phi) U + \phi (\nabla_V U) + \nabla_V W
[\phi U + W, V] = \phi [U,V] - (\nabla_V \phi) U + [W,V]

So we have:

T(\bar{U},V) = \phi \nabla_U V + \nabla_W V - (\nabla_V \phi) U - \phi (\nabla_V U) - \nabla_V W - \phi [U,V] + (\nabla_V \phi) U - [W,V]

The two occurrences of \nabla_V \phi cancel out, giving:

T(\bar{U},V) = \phi \nabla_U V + \nabla_W V + \phi (\nabla_V U) - \nabla_V W - \phi [U,V] - [W,V]
= \phi (\nabla_U V - \nabla_V U - [U,V]) + \nabla_W V - \nabla_V W - [W,V]
= \phi T(U,V) + T(W,V)
 
stevendaryl said:
A general rule of thumb is that if you can define an operation without mentioning a particular coordinate system, then it is a coordinate-free definition, and linear operations with coordinate-free definitions are (almost?) always tensors. So a way to show that T is a tensor is to show:
  1. There is a coordinate-free way to define T(U,V)
  2. T(U,V) is linear in both U and V
The coordinate-free definition of T(U,V) is this:

T(U,V) = \nabla_U V - \nabla_V U - [U,V]

where \nabla_U means the covariant derivative, or directional derivative along U, and where [U,V] is the vector field defined by its action on a scalar field:

\nabla_{[U,V]} \phi \equiv \nabla_U (\nabla_V \phi) - \nabla_V (\nabla_U \phi)

So T(U,V) has a coordinate-free definition. Now, you have to show that it is linear in U and V. Since T(U,V) = -T(V,U), it's enough to show that T(U,V) is linear in U. So let \bar{U} \equiv \phi U + W, where \phi is a scalar field, and W is a vector field. Then we need to show that T(\bar{U}, V) = \phi T(U,V) + T(W,V)

T(\bar{U},V) = \nabla_{\bar{U}} V - \nabla_V \bar{U} - [\bar{U},V]

Using properties of covariant derivatives, we have:

\nabla_{(\phi U + W)} V = \phi \nabla_U V + \nabla_W V
\nabla_V (\phi U + W) = (\nabla_V \phi) U + \phi (\nabla_V U) + \nabla_V W
[\phi U + W, V] = \phi [U,V] - (\nabla_V \phi) U + [W,V]

So we have:

T(\bar{U},V) = \phi \nabla_U V + \nabla_W V - (\nabla_V \phi) U - \phi (\nabla_V U) - \nabla_V W - \phi [U,V] + (\nabla_V \phi) U - [W,V]

The two occurrences of \nabla_V \phi cancel out, giving:

T(\bar{U},V) = \phi \nabla_U V + \nabla_W V + \phi (\nabla_V U) - \nabla_V W - \phi [U,V] - [W,V]
= \phi (\nabla_U V - \nabla_V U - [U,V]) + \nabla_W V - \nabla_V W - [W,V]
= \phi T(U,V) + T(W,V)
Thank you "stevendarly", I appreciate your endeavor. The things you have written down have remarkable and striking structure. They are based on a nice structure.
 
mertcan said:
Thank you "stevendarly", I appreciate your endeavor. The things you have written down have remarkable and striking structure. They are based on a nice structure.

You are welcome.
 
Hi, I would like to ask whether or not linear operations with coordinate-free definitions are always tensors, Because "stevendarly" said that linear operations with coordinate-free definitions were (almost?) always tensors. Is there a proof or derivation that just tensors are related to linear operations with coordinate-free definitions ?
 
Guys, ?
 
mertcan said:
Hi, I would like to ask whether or not linear operations with coordinate-free definitions are always tensors, Because "stevendarly" said that linear operations with coordinate-free definitions were (almost?) always tensors. Is there a proof or derivation that just tensors are related to linear operations with coordinate-free definitions ?

A tensor is just a multilinear function on vectors and covectors. So if you can prove that T(u,v) is linear in both its arguments, then it follows that it is a tensor. The point about coordinate-free definitions is that such definitions reveal the functional dependency of the object in a way that the component definition can obscure. For a counter-example, the connection coefficients \Gamma^\mu_{\nu \lambda} look like components of a tensor, but there is no coordinate-free way to write it as a function \Gamma(u,v) that takes a pair of vectors and returns a vector. In contrast, the directional derivative \nabla_u v does have a coordinate-free definition, but it isn't linear in the second argument (v).
 
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