Superellipse and a good coordinate system

Click For Summary

Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the concept of superellipses and the search for a suitable curvilinear coordinate system that can represent these shapes, particularly focusing on the conditions under which two families of curves are perpendicular to each other. The conversation includes theoretical exploration and mathematical reasoning related to the properties of superellipses.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Mathematical reasoning
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant introduces the equation of a superellipse and asks for a coordinate system that yields two families of curves, one representing the superellipse and the other being perpendicular to it.
  • Another participant proposes a parametric representation of the superellipse but is challenged on the need for a coordinate system with two parameters.
  • A different parametric form is suggested, which includes a radial component, but the participant expresses uncertainty about the direction of their exploration.
  • One participant notes that finding a curvilinear coordinate system is not difficult, but emphasizes the challenge of ensuring the curves are perpendicular at their intersections, referencing elliptic cylindrical coordinates as an example.
  • Several participants express frustration over the lack of responses and expertise in the forum regarding the topic.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

There is no consensus on the existence of a suitable curvilinear coordinate system for superellipses, and participants express varying levels of understanding and frustration regarding the topic.

Contextual Notes

Participants have not reached a resolution on the specific analytical expressions needed for the coordinate system, and there are unresolved questions about the conditions under which the curves are perpendicular.

traianus
Messages
80
Reaction score
0
Hello guys, at the link

http://mathworld.wolfram.com/Superellipse.html

you can find the definition of superellipse. Now consider the particular super ellipse

\frac{x^{2n}}{A^{2n}} +\frac{y^{2n}}{B^{2n}} = 1

In which A,B, are constant and n is a positive integer.
What is the coordinate system that has two families of curves in which one represents the superellipse and the other one is perpendicular to it? In the particular case of A = B, n = 1, the coordinate system is

x = r\cos{\varphi}
y = r\sin{\varphi}

If A is different than B but still n =1, the coordinate system is similar but it involves also hyperbolic sine and cosine and one family of curves is the generic ellipse and the other family is the generic hyperbola and they are perpendicular to each other, like it happens in the polar coordinates. So, is there a similar curvilinear coordinate system for the particular superellipse I described?
 
Last edited:
Physics news on Phys.org
What about:

x = A (\cos \varphi)^{\frac{1}{n}}
y = B (\sin \varphi)^{\frac{1}{n}}

?
 
This is a parametric representation of the superellipse, not a coordinate system. In fact, you have only a "free" parameter \varphi and you must have two parameters, like for polar coordinates, where you have \varphi and r.
 
Ok...so consider then:

x = A\, r [\cos \varphi]^{\frac{1}{n}}
y = B\, r [\sin \varphi]^{\frac{1}{n}}

from which we then get:

\frac{x^{2n}}{A^{2n}} +\frac{y^{2n}}{B^{2n}} = r^{2n}

Let \{\mathbf{e}_1, \mathbf{e}_2} \} form an orthonormal basis for the rectangular coordinate system and let \mathbf{w} = x\, \mathbf{e}_1 + y\, \mathbf{e}_2\;.

So then,

\mathbf{w} = r (A [\cos \varphi]^{\frac{1}{n}} \mathbf{e}_1 + B [\sin \varphi]^{\frac{1}{n}} \mathbf{e}_2)

To find a tangent vector to some superellipse given by fixed r\,, we find:

\frac{\partial \mathbf{w}}{\partial \varphi} = \frac{r}{\sin \varphi \cos \varphi} (-\frac{A\, \sin^2 \varphi}{n} [\cos \varphi]^{\frac{1}{n}} \mathbf{e}_1 + \frac{B\, \cos^2 \varphi}{n} [\sin \varphi]^{\frac{1}{n}} \mathbf{e}_2)

And I have no idea where I'm going with this but I'm having fun with the TeX stuff :p
 
It is not difficult to find a curvilinear coordinate system, the difficulty is to find one in which the two curves that you obtain when you set one parameter constant are perpendicular to each other. See for example the link

http://mathworld.wolfram.com/EllipticCylindricalCoordinates.html

From which it appears clear that the two families of curves (ellipses and hyperbolas) are perpendicular in each point they intercept. My desire is to find the analytical expressions for the curve similar to the link I posted. But instead of ellipses I have a particular kind of superellipses in which n is positive integer (see previous equation).
Notice that when you change superellipse, A,B change as well, like in polar coordinate system, when you move from a circle to another one r changes.
 
Last edited:
Is this topic so difficult? Nobody knows? Please help me if you can!
 
So far, we obtained the parametric representaion. Nobody knows better? Should I give up? Is not here any expert?
 
Nobody in this forum is able to help me? Can you please tell me another forum where I can ask the same question?
 
Come on, please!
 

Similar threads

  • · Replies 11 ·
Replies
11
Views
7K
  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
2K
  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
3K
  • · Replies 4 ·
Replies
4
Views
2K
  • · Replies 8 ·
Replies
8
Views
2K
  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
2K
Replies
5
Views
1K
  • · Replies 30 ·
2
Replies
30
Views
2K
  • · Replies 40 ·
2
Replies
40
Views
5K
Replies
7
Views
3K