Superposition principle and information

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the concept of superposition in wave physics, particularly focusing on the storage of information about individual waveforms during superposition. Participants explore the implications of superposition on the identity of the original waves and how this information is retained or lost in the resulting waveforms.

Discussion Character

  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant questions where the information about the shapes of the initial waves is stored at the moment of superposition, suggesting that the large wave formed does not retain this information.
  • Another participant argues that the individual waveforms do exist at the moment of superposition, likening the situation to adding apples, where the individual contributions are still present in the sum.
  • A different participant challenges the apple analogy, stating that waves consist of the same medium and thus cannot be treated the same way as distinct objects, raising concerns about how identical particles receive energy differently during superposition.
  • One participant further questions the existence of information regarding complex waveforms when many waves are superimposed, suggesting that the information may be lost or untraceable in the resulting wave.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on whether the information about individual waves is retained during superposition. There is no consensus on how this information is stored or if it is lost, indicating an unresolved debate.

Contextual Notes

Participants highlight limitations in understanding the nature of wave interactions and the implications of superposition, particularly regarding the identity and energy distribution of particles involved.

Virous
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I have a question about, perhaps, GCSE level physics, if not below, which, for some reason, is not explained anywhere I've looked up. Or, at least, I didn't find any explanation.

img003.jpg
The picture above is supposed to explain the concept of superposition. It depicts a pair of one-dimensional waves (wave pulses) at 5 different points in time. On the third picture (the exact moment of superposition), the initial individual waves do not exist. Instead we have a single large wave, composed of the energy of both. Where is the information about the shapes of the initial waves at this moment of time stored?

In other words, after the third picture, how does this large wave "know" how it should split in order to restore the initial pulses?

Thank you!
 
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Virous said:
On the third picture (the exact moment of superposition), the initial individual waves do not exist.
I think that's where your problem lies. Both waveforms DO exist at that point exactly as they do exist at every other point on the graph, it's just that you are looking at the sum.

If you had a basket of 3 apples and you added 2 more apples, you wouldn't be thinking "damn, where did my 3 apples go? How can I get them out again?" but because the waveforms add in a smooth way, if you ONLY look at the waveform at that point in time, you can't tell what the individual waves look like, whereas with the apples you don't have that problem.
 
The apple example would make sense, since apples are composed of different matter (I mean, each apple has its own). The problem with waves, though, is that they are all made of the same matter (the same rope in this case, or whatever that is). So a wave is just a distribution of a particular property (in this case the displacement) in space/time.

When you add two numbers (e.g. 3 and 2) you get 5. If you give 5 to another person, he wouldn't be able to tell, if the original numbers were 4 and 1 or 3 and 2 or 2.5 and 2.5 and so on. This is exactly the same case :)

If you think of it in terms of particles, on the third picture one of the particles is "up" and it is ready to go down. How is that possible that when it goes down it gives unequal amounts of energy to absolutely identical particles on its left and right?

If I were to predict what's going to happen after, I would say that the resulting waves after the superposition would be equal. Yet, all the diagrams draw them in this way, so I'm confused.
 
phinds said:
Both waveforms DO exist at that point exactly
If the diagram depicts a real situation, they obviously do :) The question is, where? Particles definitely don't have this information, since they are just particles moving up and down and having a particular displacement function.

Suppose, I have managed to superimpose a million of waves with strange shapes (I guess I would need more dimensions, but anyway). Where will all this information go?
 

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