Physics Switching PhD schools: is it possible?

[sslerose]

Hello!

This is my first post on the thread and I am hoping for some guidance. I applied to a few graduate programs (MIT, CU Boulder, UIUC, UKY) this past cycle, but was rejected from all but UKY. I went to UKY for undergrad and did really well (you can see my full profile [personal information redacted by the Mentors]), I know many of the faculty and have worked with several of them, and the uni is generally pretty good (it’s R1). However, I would really like to attend another school, both because I’m not a huge fan of the location and I don’t know that it’s the best for what I want to do (I’d like to work in applied physics, nuclear adjacent, ideally helping improve nuclear power). UKY is heavier on the fundamentals of nuclear physics and it isn’t really that appealing to me, but it was my safety school. I was told to consider an MS at UIUC by their admin, but I don’t know that I want to spend another $60k.

My main question is, then, can I reapply to PhD programs next cycle while actively being in one? I know it’s not really a “transfer”, more of a “start over” kind of move, which I am ok with, but is it even possible? Or likely? I know my recommenders (one of which would likely be my grad advisor and the other my TA supervisor) would still provide letters, and hopefully they would be a bit better than last cycle, but I don’t know if the simple fact I want to change schools will turn some reviewers off. I would likely apply to CU Boulder and UIUC again, and tack on Colorado Mines, maybe another few but I’m not sure.

Also, my soon to be TA supervisor has a PhD from CU Boulder and only got in because he requested reconsideration of his application (he was originally denied), and advised me to try the same. Is this an uncommon occurrence, and should I even bother?

Any advice would be much appreciated, and feel free to ask clarifying question.

 

[CrysPhys]

* Do you have the option of a terminal masters at UKY, in case you decide not to complete your PhD there? If so, would that be a 1 or 2 yr program?

* Are you so unhappy with the PhD program at UKY that it would be better for you to leave, even if you had to accept the risk of not getting accepted into one of your top picks? You did mention that you might consider more schools, but were not sure.

 

[Choppy]

Sure it's possible, and it happens. Students can jump into different programs for all sorts of reasons... closer to family or significant others, different opportunities, not getting along with current supervisors, etc. It can be challenging in that admission committees will likely question whether you're going to be committed to them--not something that's insurmountable, but I'd expect it to come up.
You also have to consider the case of what happens if you apply but don't get in. How are you going to manage the existing relationship with your supervisory team in that case?
My best advice there is be as transparent as possible. If one of the underlying issues is that you don't like your project options, your supervisor might be open to you proposing something. In some cases they might even contact an expert from a different university to serve on your supervisory committee and could even arrange visits to the other campus.
As far as "reconsidering" an application, often what can happen is that offers go out in rounds. Not every student who receives an offer accepts it because most students apply to multiple schools. So then they go to a second round of offers. And sometimes even a third. If a school has N spots available, they will usually keep going until they get close to N students. So even though first round offers can go out in February for September admission, some students may not get an offer until May. It doesn't hurt to contact the schools that you haven't heard from and tell them that you're still interested if they still have spots open.

 

[mathwonk]

I don't know if this is a workable suggestion, but if you are sufficiently advanced it might be an option. Some PhD programs have qualifying exams which must be passed by graduate students in order to progress to full doctoral candidacy. These exams are supposedly designed to test mastery of advanced undergraduate material.

At one point in my checkered career, having already been in grad school once before and then dropped out to teach a while, I needed to re - enter a doctoral program (in mathematics). So I studied for and then took the quals at a nearby good school, passed, and was offered admission and a scholarship. Of course by then I was being tested on material I had actually taught at least once.

This option could be done now, or after a short stint at UKY. Nothing demonstrates qualification for XYZ school like excelling their own students on a test of their making. This gives admissions more information than letters from profs at a school they may not know well. The point is, if you think you are more suited to those other programs than they think, you could try to prove it to them. Of course, even if you are now a good first year candidate, you are probably not yet ready to compete with (end of) 2nd year grad students, but it is possible you will be in a year or two.

As to the wisdom or not of this somewhat off-the-wall idea, I yield to more knowledgable commenters here.

 

[sslerose]

* Do you have the option of a terminal masters at UKY, in case you decide not to complete your PhD there? If so, would that be a 1 or 2 yr program?

I am sure that would be a possibility. 2 years would be the likely time frame, and I know of several students who were in the PhD program and chose to "master-out" instead of finish their full degree.

* Are you so unhappy with the PhD program at UKY that it would be better for you to leave, even if you had to accept the risk of not getting accepted into one of your top picks? You did mention that you might consider more schools, but were not sure.

I am not necessarily unhappy with the program, more so I feel that I should be at a more meritorious institution when it comes to physics. From my results this cycle it would seem I am where I should be, but I am not in the habit of just accepting what is given. I do believe that I can succeed in the program at UKY, and it's a good thing that industry positions are less strict on where you get your graduate degree from compared to academia.

As far as "reconsidering" an application, often what can happen is that offers go out in rounds. Not every student who receives an offer accepts it because most students apply to multiple schools. So then they go to a second round of offers. And sometimes even a third. If a school has N spots available, they will usually keep going until they get close to N students. So even though first round offers can go out in February for September admission, some students may not get an offer until May. It doesn't hurt to contact the schools that you haven't heard from and tell them that you're still interested if they still have spots open.

I am not in the position I believe this is replying with respect to. The fact is that I have been rejected from an institution but I would like to request reconsideration of my application. I don't imagine this happens often enough for anyone other than those involved to know if it ever succeeds in turning a decision around. But at this point, it's not like I have anything to lose.

I will note that I have emailed the graduate director at UIUC about their masters program twice thus far (once when I received the email and once again a week later) and have not gotten a single response. I am not sure if it's because I also included questions about my application and why I was rejected from the PhD program, but this ghosting somehow feels worse than the original rejection.

I don't know if this is a workable suggestion, but if you are sufficiently advanced it might be an option. Some PhD programs have qualifying exams which must be passed by graduate students in order to progress to full doctoral candidacy. These exams are supposedly designed to test mastery of advanced undergraduate material... Of course, even if you are now a good first year candidate, you are probably not yet ready to compete with (end of) 2nd year grad students, but it is possible you will be in a year or two.

I believe this could work depending on the institution, but I don't think it would be applicable to a situation in which I want to reapply to universities in the coming cycle. However, I could imagine a case in which my transfer could be dependent on if I could successfully pass some entry exam as a sort of "weeding out" situation.

Thank you all for your guidance.

 

[CrysPhys]

I am sure that would be a possibility. 2 years would be the likely time frame, and I know of several students who were in the PhD program and chose to "master-out" instead of finish their full degree.

I am not necessarily unhappy with the program, more so I feel that I should be at a more meritorious institution when it comes to physics. From my results this cycle it would seem I am where I should be, but I am not in the habit of just accepting what is given. I do believe that I can succeed in the program at UKY, and it's a good thing that industry positions are less strict on where you get your graduate degree from compared to academia.

By a "terminal masters" in my previous post, I meant a program in which the intended final degree is a masters; in distinction to what I call a "masters as a consolation prize", awarded to students who initially embarked on a PhD program, completed specified course requirements, but (for whatever reason) didn't complete their PhD program.

You need to tread carefully. Two options I see.

(1) Be content with the PhD program at UKY that you've been accepted to, and do your damnedest best. There's a lot to be said about a place that wants you, rather than a place that already rejected you first time around (or said, "You're not good enough for our PhD program, but maybe we'll consider you for our masters program.").

(2) Switch your program at UKY to a terminal masters; do your damnedest best; and re-apply to other schools. But I'd recommend broadening the list of schools you apply to. Not sure how this will affect your assistantship. At least you maintain clean relationships with your current profs, and are up front with them. You, of course, assume the risk of not getting accepted into a better place.

What you seem intent on doing is the following, though: start your PhD program at UKY as a safety, while continuing to apply for better schools. Not sure how this will fly. If you apply next fall, what will have changed to position you better? More importantly, how will you approach your profs at UKY for updated letters of reference? "Hey guys, thanks for the ride, but I'm heading out for some place better. Could you submit new letters of reference for me? And, if I don't get accepted to some place better, OK for me to stay on?"

 

[sslerose]

(1) Be content with the PhD program at UKY that you've been accepted to, and do your damnedest best. There's a lot to be said about a place that wants you, rather than a place that already rejected you first time around (or said, "You're not good enough for our PhD program, but maybe we'll consider you for our masters program.").

I greatly appreciate your insight into my situation. You have swayed my opinion and made me realize the fortunate situation I am in (I feel that my disappointment in my other admissions clouded my judgment slightly). I have accepted the offer at UKY and hope to perform valuable research among the faculty I have been working alongside during undergrad.

 

[CrysPhys]

I greatly appreciate your insight into my situation. You have swayed my opinion and made me realize the fortunate situation I am in (I feel that my disappointment in my other admissions clouded my judgment slightly). I have accepted the offer at UKY and hope to perform valuable research among the faculty I have been working alongside during undergrad.

I wish you good luck and great success in your future studies and research.