System of differential equations

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Homework Help Overview

The discussion revolves around a system of differential equations involving variables x and p, with the equations presented in terms of their derivatives. Participants explore various methods for finding the general solution, including power series and eigenvalue approaches.

Discussion Character

  • Mixed

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • Some participants discuss using power series to tackle the problem, while others express uncertainty about their familiarity with this method. There are attempts to find eigenvalues and eigenvectors, with varying degrees of success and understanding. Questions arise regarding the correctness of solutions and the interpretation of results.

Discussion Status

The discussion is active, with participants sharing different methods and questioning the validity of their approaches. Some guidance has been offered regarding the use of eigenvalues, and there is acknowledgment of the complexity involved in the problem. Multiple interpretations of the equations are being explored, but no consensus has been reached on a definitive solution.

Contextual Notes

Participants note that certain methods, such as power series, have not yet been covered in their coursework, which may limit their ability to engage with some suggested approaches. There are also references to discrepancies between participants' findings and textbook solutions.

MaxManus
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Homework Statement



Find the general solution of

[tex]\dot{x}[/tex] = x + e^{2t}p [/tex]
[tex]\dot{p} = 2e^{-2t}x - p[/tex]

Homework Equations


The Attempt at a Solution


I know how to solve systems with constant coefficients using eigenvalues and eigenvectors, but what should I do in this case?
 
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Hello Max. Here's a challenging way: try it with power series. I did for the IVP:

[tex]x'=x+e^{2t}p,\quad x(0)=1[/tex]

[tex]p'=2e^{-2t}x-p,\quad p(0)=1[/tex]

and obtained the plot below which agrees nicely with the numerical results cus' I actually plotted them both and they're right on top of one another. Also,I'm no expert so may be an easier way to solve this. :)
 

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Thanks, but we have not learned power series, I looked up the method, but I can't solve the system. Did you find the solution?
The book says
[tex]x = Ae^{(1+\sqrt{2})t} + Be^{(1-\sqrt{2})t}[/tex]
[tex]p = A\sqrt(2)e^{(\sqrt{2}-1)t} -B\sqrt{2}e^{(-\sqrt{2}-1)t}[/tex]
 
Last edited:
MaxManus said:
Thanks, but we have not learned power series, I looked up the method, but I can't solve the system. Did you find the solution?
The book says
[tex]x = Ae^{(1+\sqrt{2})t} + Be^{(1-\sqrt{2})t}[/tex]
[tex]p = A\sqrt(2)e^{(\sqrt{2}-1)t} -B\sqrt{2}e^{(-\sqrt{2}-1)t}[/tex]

Well not that solution but a purist would say the power series is the solution although not in closed form like the above. I don't know how to arrive at your solution.
 
Find the eigenvalues and eigenvectors of [[1,exp(2t)],[2*exp(-2t),-1]]. The eigenvectors will be functions of t, but that shouldn't stop you from treating this the same way you would if the matrix were numerical.
 
Dick said:
Find the eigenvalues and eigenvectors of [[1,exp(2t)],[2*exp(-2t),-1]]. The eigenvectors will be functions of t, but that shouldn't stop you from treating this the same way you would if the matrix were numerical.

Ok. I see now. Thank you. I assume Max got it too. Personally I think Max should work out all the details in nice pretty latex and post it but I don't want to bug him about it. :)
 
Eigenvalues
[tex](1-\lambda)(-1-\lambda) - e^{2t}2e^{-2t} = 0[/tex]
[tex]\lambda = \pm- \sqrt{3}[/tex]

for [tex]\lambda = \sqrt(3)[/tex]

[tex](1-\sqrt{3})x + e^{2t}y = 0[/tex]

[tex]v_1 = \begin{array}{c} 1\\ (\sqrt{3}-1})e^{-2t}\\[/tex]

for [tex]\lambda = -\sqrt{3}[/tex]
[tex](1+ \sqrt{3})x + e^{2t}y = 0[/tex]
[tex]v_2 = \begin{array}{c} 1\\ (-\sqrt{3}-1})e^{-2t}\\[/tex]

[tex]x = Ae^{\sqrt{3t}} + Be^{-\sqrt{3t}[/tex]
[tex]p = A(\sqrt{3}-1)e^{(-2+\sqrt{3})t} - B(\sqrt{3}+1)e^{(-2-\sqrt{3})t}[/tex]

Not sure what I did wrong, but tried calculating the eigenvalue several times, but that is not important. Thanks again to both of you for all the help.
 
A somewhat more primitive way: differentiate the first equation again to get
[tex]x''= x'+ 2e^{2t}p+ e^{2t}p'[/tex]
From the second equation,
[tex]p'= 2e^{-2t}x- p[/tex]
Putting that in,
[tex]x''= x'+ 2e^{2t}p+ 2x- e^{2t}p= x' + 2x[/tex]

Solve
[tex]x''- x' - 2x= 0[/tex]
for x(t).
Again, from the first equation,
[tex]e^{2t}p= x'- x[/tex]
so that
[tex]p= e^{-2t}(x'- x)[/tex].
 
MaxManus said:
[tex]x = Ae^{\sqrt{3t}} + Be^{-\sqrt{3t}[/tex]
[tex]p = A(\sqrt{3}-1)e^{(-2+\sqrt{3})t} - B(\sqrt{3}+1)e^{(-2-\sqrt{3})t}[/tex]

Not sure what I did wrong, but tried calculating the eigenvalue several times, but that is not important. Thanks again to both of you for all the help.

Your solution is correct, the book is wrong. Try to plug in back into the original equations
 
  • #10
HallsofIvy said:
A somewhat more primitive way: differentiate the first equation again to get
[tex]x''= x'+ 2e^{2t}p+ e^{2t}p'[/tex]
From the second equation,
[tex]p'= 2e^{-2t}x- p[/tex]
Putting that in,
[tex]x''= x'+ 2e^{2t}p+ 2x- e^{2t}p= x' + 2x[/tex]

A term e2tp is missing.

ehild
 

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