System of Equations II: Evaluate p+q+r+s & 64p+27q+8r+s

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around evaluating two expressions, $p+q+r+s$ and $64p+27q+8r+s$, based on a given system of equations involving four variables. Participants explore methods for deriving these values through polynomial relationships and comparisons of coefficients.

Discussion Character

  • Mathematical reasoning
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant presents a polynomial $a_n$ defined in terms of $p$, $q$, $r$, and $s$, asserting that it matches the cubic form $(2n-1)^3$ for specific values of $n$.
  • From the polynomial comparison, the same participant concludes that $p+q+r+s = 8$.
  • Another participant agrees with the method and reiterates the same steps, arriving at the same conclusion for $64p+27q+8r+s = 729$.
  • Some participants express admiration for each other's methods, with one noting a perceived "cheating" in the approach of another, though this is presented in a light-hearted manner.
  • There are informal exchanges and playful banter among participants, indicating a friendly atmosphere despite the mathematical focus.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

While there is agreement on the methods used to evaluate the expressions, the playful comments suggest a light-hearted contention regarding the validity of the approaches. No formal disagreement on the mathematical conclusions is evident, but the tone indicates a mix of camaraderie and competition.

Contextual Notes

The discussion relies on the assumption that the polynomial determined by the given values is unique, which is a standard property of cubic polynomials, but this assumption is not explicitly stated by all participants.

Who May Find This Useful

Readers interested in polynomial interpolation, systems of equations, or those looking for collaborative problem-solving approaches in mathematics may find this discussion beneficial.

anemone
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Consider the system of equations:

$p+8q+27r+64s=1$

$8p+27q+64r+125s=27$

$27p+64q+125r+216s=125$

$64p+125q+216r+343s=343$

Evaluate $p+q+r+s$ and $64p+27q+8r+s$.
 
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[sp]Let $$\begin{aligned}a_n &= pn^3 + q(n+1)^3 + r(n+2)^3 + s(n+3)^3 \\ &= (p+q+r+s)n^3 + 3(q+2r+3s)n^2 + 3(q+4r+9s)n + (q+8r+27s).\qquad(*) \end{aligned}$$ We are told that $a_1=1^3$, $a_2 = 3^3$, $a_3 = 5^3$ and $a_4 = 7^3$. So for those four values of $n$, $a_n = (2n-1)^3$. But a cubic polynomial is determined by its values at four points, and therefore $$a_n = (2n-1)^3\qquad(**)$$ for all $n$.

Compare the coefficients of $n^3$ in (*) and (**) to get $p+q+r+s = 8$.

Then put $n=-4$ in (*) and (**) to get $(-4)^3p + (-3)^3q + (-2)^3r + (-1)^3s = (-9)^3$, or $64p+27q+8r+s = 729.$[/sp]
 
Here is my solution:

a) Evaluate $$p+q+r+s$$

Multiply the first equation by -1, the second by 3 the third by -3 and the system becomes:

$$-p-8q-27r-64s=-1$$

$$24p+81q+192r+375s=81$$

$$-81p-192q-375r-648s=-375$$

$$64p+125q+216r+343s=343$$

Adding we get:

$$6p+6q+6r+6s=48$$

Hence:

$$p+q+r+s=8$$

b) Evaluate $$64p+27q+8r+s$$

Multiply the first equation by -56, the second by 140 the third by -120 and the fourth by 35 and the system becomes:

$$-56p-448q-1512r-3584s=-56$$

$$1120p+3780q+8960r+17500s=3780$$

$$-3240p-7680q-15000r-25920s=-15000$$

$$2240p+4375q+7560r+12005s=12005$$

Adding, we get:

$$64p+27q+8r+s=729$$

I simply solved another 4X4 system (using a CAS) to determine the values by which to multiply the given equations. Opalg's solution is much more elegant. :D
 
Opalg said:
[sp]Let $$\begin{aligned}a_n &= pn^3 + q(n+1)^3 + r(n+2)^3 + s(n+3)^3 \\ &= (p+q+r+s)n^3 + 3(q+2r+3s)n^2 + 3(q+4r+9s)n + (q+8r+27s).\qquad(*) \end{aligned}$$ We are told that $a_1=1^3$, $a_2 = 3^3$, $a_3 = 5^3$ and $a_4 = 7^3$. So for those four values of $n$, $a_n = (2n-1)^3$. But a cubic polynomial is determined by its values at four points, and therefore $$a_n = (2n-1)^3\qquad(**)$$ for all $n$.

Compare the coefficients of $n^3$ in (*) and (**) to get $p+q+r+s = 8$.

Then put $n=-4$ in (*) and (**) to get $(-4)^3p + (-3)^3q + (-2)^3r + (-1)^3s = (-9)^3$, or $64p+27q+8r+s = 729.$[/sp]

MarkFL said:
Here is my solution:

a) Evaluate $$p+q+r+s$$

Multiply the first equation by -1, the second by 3 the third by -3 and the system becomes:

$$-p-8q-27r-64s=-1$$

$$24p+81q+192r+375s=81$$

$$-81p-192q-375r-648s=-375$$

$$64p+125q+216r+343s=343$$

Adding we get:

$$6p+6q+6r+6s=48$$

Hence:

$$p+q+r+s=8$$

b) Evaluate $$64p+27q+8r+s$$

Multiply the first equation by -56, the second by 140 the third by -120 and the fourth by 35 and the system becomes:

$$-56p-448q-1512r-3584s=-56$$

$$1120p+3780q+8960r+17500s=3780$$

$$-3240p-7680q-15000r-25920s=-15000$$

$$2240p+4375q+7560r+12005s=12005$$

Adding, we get:

$$64p+27q+8r+s=729$$

I simply solved another 4X4 system (using a CAS) to determine the values by which to multiply the given equations. Opalg's solution is much more elegant. :D

Thank you for participating to both of you! Both are genius and perfect solutions to me, honestly speaking, albeit MarkFL's has cheated a bit in his method. (Tongueout)

@Opalg, I really like your method, in fact, I like all of your posts so very much!:)
 

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MarkFL said:
To the corner with me...(Dull)

View attachment 1982

(Smirk)

Please come back and don't stand(or sit?) in the corner, my sweetest admin!:o I can overlook this if... if you cook a nice meal for me!(Emo)
 
anemone said:
Consider the system of equations:

$p+8q+27r+64s=1$

$8p+27q+64r+125s=27$

$27p+64q+125r+216s=125$

$64p+125q+216r+343s=343$

Evaluate $p+q+r+s$ and $64p+27q+8r+s$.

Hello.

I, as always, the more gross. :o
I follow the succession (up):

4^3p+5^3q+6^3r+7^3s=7^3

3^3p+4^3q+5^3r+6^3s=5^3

2^3p+3^3q+4^3r+5^3s=3^3

1^3p+2^3q+3^3r+4^3s=1^3

0^3p+1^3q+2^3r+3^3s=-1^3. (a)

-1^3p+0^3q+1^3r+2^3s=-3^3. (b)

-2^3p-1^3q+0^3r+1^3s=-5^3. (c)

-3^3p-2^3q-1^3r+0^3s=-7^3. (d)

-4^3p-3^3q-2^3r-1^3s=-9^3

Therefore:

4^3p+3^3q+2^3r+1^3s=+9^3=729

Now:

(a)-(d)=27p+9q+9r+27s=342 \rightarrow{}3p+q+r+3s=38. (e)

(b)-(c)=7p+q+r+7s=98. (f)

(f)-(e)=4p+4s=60 \rightarrow{}p+s=15. (g)

For (e):

3p+q+r+3s=38

45+q+r=38 \rightarrow{}q+r=-7

Therefore:

p+s+q+r=15-7=8

Regards.
 
mente oscura said:
Hello.

I, as always, the more gross. :o
I follow the succession (up):

4^3p+5^3q+6^3r+7^3s=7^3

3^3p+4^3q+5^3r+6^3s=5^3

2^3p+3^3q+4^3r+5^3s=3^3

1^3p+2^3q+3^3r+4^3s=1^3

0^3p+1^3q+2^3r+3^3s=-1^3. (a)

-1^3p+0^3q+1^3r+2^3s=-3^3. (b)

-2^3p-1^3q+0^3r+1^3s=-5^3. (c)

-3^3p-2^3q-1^3r+0^3s=-7^3. (d)

-4^3p-3^3q-2^3r-1^3s=-9^3

Therefore:

4^3p+3^3q+2^3r+1^3s=+9^3=729

Now:

(a)-(d)=27p+9q+9r+27s=342 \rightarrow{}3p+q+r+3s=38. (e)

(b)-(c)=7p+q+r+7s=98. (f)

(f)-(e)=4p+4s=60 \rightarrow{}p+s=15. (g)

For (e):

3p+q+r+3s=38

45+q+r=38 \rightarrow{}q+r=-7

Therefore:

p+s+q+r=15-7=8

Regards.

Hey mente oscura, thanks for participating and you know what, my method is exactly the same as yours! I say our method is a good one too!:o
 

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