Taylor expansion of a scalar potential field

Click For Summary

Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the Taylor expansion of a scalar potential field, specifically the potential ##U(\phi) = \frac{\lambda}{8}(\phi^{2}-a^{2})^{2}-\frac{\epsilon}{2a}(\phi - a)##. Participants explore the derivation of the potential ##U(\varphi)## by expanding around a specific point ##\phi=\phi_{-}##, examining the implications of keeping terms up to dimension four, and discussing the significance of shifting the field to simplify calculations.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • One participant presents the potential and its expansion around ##\phi_{-}##, asking for explicit derivation steps.
  • Another participant questions the meaning of ##\phi_{-}##, leading to clarification that it represents a fixed value of the potential.
  • A participant provides a Taylor expansion formula and expresses uncertainty about how many terms to retain based on dimensionality.
  • There is a discussion about the necessity of keeping terms up to dimension four, with some participants suggesting that this is related to the nature of the problem being addressed.
  • One participant emphasizes that expanding around a local minimum is common practice to eliminate the linear term, which simplifies calculations.
  • Another participant notes that if ##U''(\phi_-) > 0##, the problem can be treated as a harmonic oscillator, indicating a specific condition for the analysis.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the approach to the Taylor expansion and the significance of retaining certain terms. There is no consensus on the best method to proceed, and the discussion remains unresolved regarding the optimal strategy for the expansion.

Contextual Notes

Participants mention the importance of truncating after the second power in ##(\varphi-\phi_{-})## when keeping terms to dimension four, but there is no agreement on the implications of this truncation or the necessity of the approach.

spaghetti3451
Messages
1,311
Reaction score
31
Consider the potential ##U(\phi) = \frac{\lambda}{8}(\phi^{2}-a^{2})^{2}-\frac{\epsilon}{2a}(\phi - a)##, where ##\phi## is a scalar field and the mass dimensions of the couplings are: ##[\lambda]=0##, ##[a]=1##, and ##[\epsilon]=4##.

Expanding the field ##\phi## about the point ##\phi=\phi_{-}## (##\phi = \phi_{-}+ \varphi##) and keeping terms up to dimension four, we find

##U(\varphi)=\frac{m^{2}}{2}\varphi^{2}-\eta\varphi^{3}+\frac{\lambda}{8}\varphi^{4}##,

where ##m^{2}=\frac{\lambda}{2}(3\phi_{-}^{2}-a^{2})## and ##\eta = \frac{\lambda}{2}\lvert\phi_{-}\lvert##.

How do you derive this potential ##U(\varphi)## in explicit steps? Can you provide just the first two lines? I'll work out the rest for myself.
 
Physics news on Phys.org
What's ##\phi_-##?
 
##\phi_{-}## is some fixed value of the potential ##\phi##.
 
Alright, I have made some progress with the problem.

##U(\varphi) = U(\phi)+U'(\phi)(\varphi-\phi)+\frac{U''(\phi)}{2}(\varphi-\phi)^{2}+\frac{U''(\phi)}{6}(\varphi-\phi)^{3} \cdots##

##=\frac{\lambda}{8}(\phi^{2}-a^{2})^{2}-\frac{\epsilon}{2a}(\phi - a)+\frac{1}{2}\bigg(\frac{\lambda}{4}(\phi^{2}-a^{2})(2\phi)-\frac{\epsilon}{2a}\bigg)(-\phi_{-})+\frac{1}{6}\bigg(\frac{3\lambda}{2}\phi^{2}-\frac{\lambda}{2}a^{2}\bigg)(-\phi_{-})^{2}##.

Now, I'm not really sure how many terms to keep based on the comment 'keeping terms up to dimension four'.

Can you help with that?
 
Well, the expression is of order 4 in the fields. So you just keep all terms, and I still don't get what your manipulations mean. The first line makes sense, because it's the Taylor expansion around ##\phi##, but the 2nd line looks totally unrelated to the first.

Usually you shift the field such that the linear term vanishes. Most convenient is to expand around a (local) minimum of the potential.
 
vanhees71 said:
Well, the expression is of order 4 in the fields. So you just keep all terms,

The paper from which I took this problem mentions 'keeping terms up to dimension four' - why do they keep terms up to dimension four? I think the answer to this question lies in your third comment.

vanhees71 said:
and I still don't get what your manipulations mean. The first line makes sense, because it's the Taylor expansion around ##\phi##, but the 2nd line looks totally unrelated to the first.

Sorry, my bad!

##U(\varphi) = U(\phi)+U'(\phi)(\varphi-\phi)+\frac{U''(\phi)}{2}(\varphi-\phi)^{2}+\frac{U''(\phi)}{6}(\varphi-\phi)^{3}+\frac{U'''(\phi)}{24}(\varphi-\phi)^{4} + \cdots##

##=\frac{\lambda}{8}(\phi^{2}-a^{2})^{2}-\frac{\epsilon}{2a}(\phi - a)+\bigg(\frac{\lambda}{4}(\phi^{2}-a^{2})(2\phi)-\frac{\epsilon}{2a}\bigg)(-\phi_{-})+\frac{1}{2}\bigg(\frac{3\lambda}{2}\phi^{2}-\frac{\lambda}{2}a^{2}\bigg)(-\phi_{-})^{2}+\frac{1}{6}\bigg(3\lambda\phi\bigg)(-\phi_{-})^{3}+\frac{1}{24}\bigg(3\lambda\bigg)(-\phi_{-})^{4}##.

But, I think this is unnecessary in lieu of your next comment.

vanhees71 said:
Usually you shift the field such that the linear term vanishes. Most convenient is to expand around a (local) minimum of the potential.

##U(\varphi)=U(\phi_{-})+U'(\phi_{-})(\varphi-\phi_{-})+\frac{U''(\phi_{-})}{2}(\varphi-\phi_{-})^{2}+\frac{U''(\phi_{-})}{6}(\varphi-\phi_{-})^{3}+\frac{U'''(\phi_{-})}{24}(\varphi-\phi_{-})^{4} + \cdots##

Now, I did not mention it before, but ##\phi=\phi_{-}## is a local minimum, so that ##U'(\phi_{-})=0##.

Also, keeping terms to dimension four means that we truncate after the second power in ##(\varphi-\phi_{-})##.

Therefore, ##U(\varphi)=U(\phi_{-})+\frac{U''(\phi_{-})}{2}(\varphi-\phi_{-})^{2}##.

Am I correct so far?

Also, why do we shift the field such that the linear term vanishes?
 
Last edited:
because it simplifies the further calculations a lot. In your case, if ##U''(\phi_-) > 0## for small deviations from ##\phi_-## you can treat the problem as a harmonic-oscillator problem, i.e., a linear differential equation.
 

Similar threads

  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
1K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
3K
  • · Replies 9 ·
Replies
9
Views
2K
  • · Replies 0 ·
Replies
0
Views
1K
  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
1K
  • · Replies 5 ·
Replies
5
Views
2K
  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
11K
  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
3K
  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
1K
  • · Replies 0 ·
Replies
0
Views
1K