Telepathy-a science or just falacy

[Pattielli]

Could you please tell me whay there comes to be such a word ? I mean why people mention the term 'telepathy' ?
I just think that it is like a falacy, not true at all. Because I don't think it can be measured or perhaps am I misunderstanding this socalled-sending messages from one mind to the other- ?

Any replies, instructions are all highly appreciated !
Please help me with this, I thank you very much...

 

[Atrayo]

Hello Pattielli,

Telepathy:
The sympathetic affection of one mind by the thoughts, feelings, or emotions of another at a distance, without communication through the ordinary channels of sensation.
(Source: Dictionary.com)

Well have you ever seen any episodes of "Star Trek:The Next Generation"?

If so, you'll remember the character of Deana Troy, who was the ships counselor. She was the Empath reader for Captain Picard when they used that video screen for chats. In science-fiction empaths also appear in Babylon 5 as psionic mind readers.

Empathy meaning the use of compassion to gauge anothers emotional state of mind. Where in psychic (para-normal) terms they would be called "Empaths". The reason why i bring up empaths is that telepathy is interlocked with empathy. Which is reading a person either by their body (facial) language or peering into their eyes. (which the ancient Egyptians equated the eyes as the mirror to the soul) (for face to face encounters)

It can be considered a daily occurrence likewise if you consider how we coomunicate with infants/toddlers or animals. If your a pet owner of a cat or dog, there have been times without saying a word that your pet understood what you were trying to impart. Same thing goes with mothers and their children which don't have solid language skills yet developed.

There is probably reams of material for and against "telepathy" as a phenomena, it just depends on whom you go to for the information. Same thing can be said of para-pyschology research, which in traditional scientific circles is considered to be psuedo-science. Although i view that para-pyschology is a pre-cursor field of ethereal sciences. (opposite of science based on physical laws of nature)

 

[Nicomachus]

Ethereal sciences. heh. Prove it.
*Nico

 

[the number 42]

Telepathy: The sympathetic affection of one mind by the thoughts, feelings, or emotions of another at a distance, without communication through the ordinary channels of sensation.
(Source: Dictionary.com)
...telepathy is interlocked with empathy. Which is reading a person either by their body (facial) language or peering into their eyes.

Doesn't vision count as an ordinary channel of sensation? If empathy requires vision (or the other four senses), then it probably can't be said to be "interlocked" with things extrasensory.

However, I once saw a chap perform a Vulcan mind-meld under controlled conditions, a thing I still can't explain...

 

[(Q)]

There has been no evidence whatsoever to suggest thoughts can be transferred from one mind to another.

It's not really a fallacy - more along the lines of mere nonsense.

 

[the number 42]

(Q): if Star Trek is to believed - and I'm not suggesting for a moment that we should doubt a word - shouldn't you, as an omnidimensional being (or something), be a little more open to the possibility of telepathy? I know I am, and I only exist in two dimensions, or so the personality tests say.

Kidding aside, I think it is healthy to keep an open mind on some of these things. And... hold on... something coming through... Yes - the magic has arrived. It is Entropia telling me that I am a bona fide bonehead, because - guess what? Someone has already beaten us to this thread. Why didn't we sense this before?

https://www.physicsforums.com/showthread.php?t=260&page=1

 

[the number 42]

Er... I have just been there and I can now see why we didn't sense the previous thread. Let's just continue with this one. If you have to, read page one of the other thread, but in the name of Uhura, DON'T venture on to page two.

(I know they are going to venture onto page two; forgive me, Lieutenant).

 

[the number 42]

I have just been looking at a different thread on mind controlled technology...
https://www.physicsforums.com/showthread.php?t=4945

...where megashaun found an interesting article:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/technology/3485918.stm

Not exactly telepathy as we know it (Jim), but not light years far from it either.

 

[zoobyshoe]

I believe there is something to telepathy based on my own experiences like when you find yourself going into deep thought about someone you haven't thought about in a long while, the phone rings, and it is the person you were thinking about.

Then there are the stories of people who are suddenly possessed by a feeling of alarm concerning a family member, and when they call to check, find that that person has just been taken to the hospital, or there was a fire in their house, or some similar misfortune.

Those things prove nothing, of course, but they are why I am not inclined to close my mind to the possibility.

 

[Janitor]

It seems I'm always waving my cane and saying, "You kids aren't old enough...

... to remember this..." But I remember when Apollo astronaut Edgar Mitchell did some experiment during the mission involving the supposed beaming of his thoughts to people on Earth. He claimed some success, statistically speaking, but I never was impressed. He was also into the wild theorizing of Rupert Sheldrake, as I recall.

 

[the number 42]

I believe there is something to telepathy based on my own experiences ...Then there are the stories of people who are suddenly possessed by a feeling of alarm concerning a family member, and when they call to check, find that that person has just been taken to the hospital... Those things prove nothing, of course, but they are why I am not inclined to close my mind to the possibility.

That's the trouble really. Most of the compelling evidence is qualitative (i.e. experiences that seem meaningful) than quantitative i.e. statistical. This means that even hardened sceptics can have experiences that make them suspect something to telepathy, but then they look at the figures...

A couple of reasons for the feeling/figures discrepancy is that 1/ we are not that good a estimating the liklihood of events occurring by chance, and 2/ we tend to notice and remember the times something unusual happens, but not when nothing unusual happens (yes, this second is a statement of the obvious).

Take an example of the first problem: let's suppose there are 23 people reading this thread. What is the liklihood that one of the 23 shares the same birthday as Zoobyshoe? 1 in 100? 2 in 365? Or what? ("Turn to p.11 for the answer", it says here).

 

[Janitor]

we tend to notice and remember the times something unusual happens, but not when nothing unusual happenss- the_number_42

As I so often do, I will stray from the topic at hand (telepathy) onto a different topic (religion). I know a married woman who says that the very first time she saw the man who is now her husband, God told her: "This is the man you are going to marry." What I have not suggested to her, in the interest of keeping peaceful relations, is that she probably also had that feeling several times before that, with men that she did not wind up marrying. But she conveniently forgets all those false feelings, I imagine, and attributes the one time the feeling turned out to be correct to the Voice of God speaking directly to her.

 

[zoobyshoe]

A couple of reasons for the feeling/figures discrepancy is that 1/ we are not that good a estimating the liklihood of events occurring by chance, and 2/ we tend to notice and remember the times something unusual happens, but not when nothing unusual happens (yes, this second is a statement of the obvious).

True.

In addition to my own telephone experiences, and the anecdotes about the loved one in danger, there are three historical accounts I know of which are, much too specific to be dismissed as the coincidence remembered among the non-coincidences forgetten.

One is the story of the village simpleton who seemed to be witnessing and reporting on the battle in which Richard III was killed from many miles away. When the news that Richard had been killed and dethroned reached the village, they sent word to the new king about this strange occurance and he had the simpleton brought to his court to meet him. The poor man begged not to go, claiming they would starve him to death there. And in fact, to prevent him from running away, the King had the man locked in a room while he (the king) was off on a trip, and the servants forgot all about him. When the king returned and asked for him, they found him dead of starvation in the locked room.

Another is the story of mystic Emmanuel Swedenbourg becoming anxious and agitated while at the court of the Queen of Sweden, claiming that he sensed his house was being threatened by a fire in another city. People at the court recorded his claims in their diaries. Later it was discovered they were accurate.

A third is the story of Geronimo, the Apache war chief, who was also something of a mystic and shaman. Once while they were camped for the night while eluding the soldiers trying to round them up, Geronimo was suddenly seized by an intuition. He shouted for everyone to saddle up and ride home because the soldiers were there attacking their women and children. Which turned out to be true.

The first two stories are documented, the last is from reports by Geronimo's men years later, after they were captured.

 

[JohnDubYa]

RE: "In addition to my own telephone experiences, and the anecdotes about the loved one in danger, there are three historical accounts I know of which are, much too specific to be dismissed as the coincidence remembered among the non-coincidences forgetten."

How many times in history have these premonitions turned out to be not true, and why haven't these instances been recorded in history?

 

[zoobyshoe]

How many times in history have these premonitions turned out to be not true, and why haven't these instances been recorded in history?

I bet that for anyone willing to dig, you could uncover a lot of stories of people who claimed to be getting telepathic warnings and such that turned out to be nothing. I have no interest in doing that, because it's obvious it happens all the time.

These three stories struck me as way too specific to be coincidental hits in the midst of many misses.

I'm not trying to convince anyone else with them, just presenting them as what leads me to keep my mind open about telepathy.

 

[Ivan Seeking]

... to remember this..." But I remember when Apollo astronaut Edgar Mitchell did some experiment during the mission involving the supposed beaming of his thoughts to people on Earth. He claimed some success, statistically speaking, but I never was impressed. He was also into the wild theorizing of Rupert Sheldrake, as I recall.

Never heard of it.

On January 31, 1971, Dr. Edgar Mitchell, then a U.S. Navy Captain, embarked on a journey through outer space of some 500,000 miles that resulted in becoming the sixth man to walk on the moon. That historic journey terminated safely nine days later on February 9, 1971 and was made in the company of two other men of valor—Admiral Alan Shepard and Colonel Stuart Roosa...

In 1973, a year ofter retiring from the U.S. Navy and the Astronaut Program, Dr. Mitchell founded the Institute of Noetic Sciences. It is a foundation organized to sponsor research in the nature of consciousness. He is co-founder of the Association of Space Explorers, an international organization founded in 1984 for all who share the experience of space travel. Both organizations are educational organizations developed to provide new understanding of the human condition resulting from the epoch of space exploration. [continued]

http://nidsci.org/bios/mitchell.php

His site:
http://www.noetic.org/

 

[JohnDubYa]

RE: "These three stories struck me as way too specific to be coincidental hits in the midst of many misses."

Frankly, I don't find them all that profound. The first one especially.

 

[zoobyshoe]

Frankly, I don't find them all that profound. The first one especially.

I don't find them to be profound, either.

 

[Evo]

RE: "These three stories struck me as way too specific to be coincidental hits in the midst of many misses."

Frankly, I don't find them all that profound. The first one especially.

Of course there are many more "misses" than "hits" and for obvious reasons we remember the "hits".

But to be objective, we would need to look specifically at this person that had this "hit" and see how many times he had other experiences that were as alarming to him that were "misses". Since the incidences recorded were recorded without bias to the outcome, why was there never a similar experience recorded that turned out to be wrong? It would seem, perhaps, that the person was not prone to fanciful outbursts.

Of course this doesn't mean they were capable of knowing something they could not have normally known, but I think it is unwise to close your mind to what we don't know for sure.

I prefer to keep an open mind, however skeptical.

 

[zoobyshoe]

I found the story of the village simpleton online. This is pretty much verbatim the version I first read in a book called "Mysteries of the Unexplained":

"Robert Nixon was a rural visionary held to be mentally retarded by everyone. He was born in 1467 on a farm in the county of Cheshire, England and was a plowboy by profession, a profession he didn't choose for himself. He was too dim-witted by appearance and thinking too, so thought the people. He never spoke much, but was out with strange gibberish talk at times, which was entirely incomprehensible. This was the supposed evidence to his insanity.
He was merrily plowing a field one day, when all of a sudden, he turned around with an alienated look and screamed "Now Dick! Now Harry! Oh, ill done, Dick! Oh, well done, Harry! Harry has gained the day!" The cry was convincing enough yet not decipherable. Robert's co-workers were puzzled. They were enlightened the very next day. When Robert was at his estranged best, King Richard III had been killed at Bosworth Field, and the victor of that decisive battle, Henry Tudor, was proclaimed Henry VII of England.
The news of the pastoral prophet soon reached the king, who was fascinated and wanted to meet him. He sent an emissary from London to get Robert to the palace. Robert knew the envoy was coming for him. Utterly distressed, he went running about town saying that the king had sent for him and he would be starved to death.
Henry, the King, pretended to be in dire trouble to test his prophecy. He had lost a valuable diamond and wanted to know where it was. Robert replied calmly, "those who hide can find." The king had indeed hidden the diamond. Impressed by this, Henry ordered a record to be made of everything the lad said. Meanwhile, the lad forecasted English civil wars, deaths and abdication of kings, and war with France. One pf his forecasts was that the town of Nantwich, in Chenshire, would be swept away by a flood, which has not happened to date.
The prophecy that he made before he entered the royal palace yet kept bugging him that of his starvation to death. To put his fears to rest, Henry ordered that Nixon be given all the food he wanted and whenever he wanted it.
The king however left London one day, with Robert in the care of one of his officers. To protect the word of his master, the officer locked him safely in the king's own closet. He was too called away from London on urgent business and forgot to leave the key or instructions for Robert's release. He returned days later to find that Robert had starved to death."

That is from this site: Welcome to SuratCityOnline.com - X-Zone - the most thrilling and chilling hidden place
Address:http://www.suratcityonline.com/Mystery/prediction/article2.asp

In my googling, I discovered there is a book about Nixon. Here is a brief review I found of that book:

ROBERT NIXON - The Cheshire Prophet: An 18th Century Propaganda
Edited by Jon Easton, published by Fenris Press, Chester 1999. A5. 40pp. £3.95. ISBN: 1-902601-01-7
British history and folk culture has been well blessed with legendary prophets and seers from Mother Shipton to Thomas the Rhymer and back again. It is therefore rather intriguing that some people thought a few fictitious ones should be added to the tally.
Robert Nixon was one of the latter variety. His cryptic utterances were supposedly discovered during the 18th century in a late medieval manuscript and were circulated fairly widely for much of the Georgian period. Unfortunately they turned out to be completely fictitious, as did Nixon himself - created for political purposes so that his supposed prophesies could be said to have predicted events and developments since his own day and culminating during the 18th century. Ossian rides again.
What then is the point in publishing again a load of fake prophesies? My interpretation of them and their value is that they provide a useful warning against the gullibility of many in the pagan and esoteric communities today. This was a scam on a huge scale in which many who should have asked searching questions and kept their wits about them were hung out to dry and made fools of because they accepted all too readily what they wanted to believe. As such it contains salutary lessons for today's new agers and fluffy bunnies. An amusing read and one which proves that there's one born every minute."
White Dragon Book Reviews - A
Address:http://www.whitedragon.org.uk/reviews/nixon.htm Changed:3:18 PM on Sunday, February 22, 2004

 

[JohnDubYa]

The death of Nixon did seem a little far-fetched. :)

 

[zoobyshoe]

Regarding the circumstances of his death, the version in the book Mysteries Of The Unexplained is more detailed:

"To allay these fears [of starvation], Henry ordered that Nixon should be given all the food he wanted, whenever he wanted it, an order that did not endear the strange young man to the royal kitchen (whose staff, in any case, envied his privileges).

One day , however, the king left London, leaving Robert in the care of one of his officers. To protect his charge from the malice of the palace domestics, the officer thoughtfully locked him safely in the king's own closet. The officer was then also called away from London on urgent business, and forgot to leave the key or instructions for Robert's release. By the time he returned, Robert had starved to death."

When I first told the story, I had completely misremembered why they locked him up. The online version is a bit vague, and this expanded version makes the most sense.

 

[Michaelpol]

Telepathy is real accual humans can do it.Bees and bugs use this to communicate.Some humans who cannot speak use telepathy to communicate.

 

[Ivan Seeking]

Telepathy is real accual humans can do it.Bees and bugs use this to communicate.Some humans who cannot speak use telepathy to communicate.

We appreciate that this is your opinion, but now that you have made your position clear you need to start posting information to support your claims. Why do you believe this? Where do you get your ideas? Where is the evidence? Simply making assertions contributes nothing of value.

 

[Michaelpol]

... I got evidence i got your evidence 1. I have done it. 2. My great grandfather can't speak and he talks using telepathy. 3. I have practiced this for 4 years. 4. Bugs use it to communicate. THERES YOUR PROOF.

 

[Ivan Seeking]

... I got evidence i got your evidence 1. I have done it. 2. My great grandfather can't speak and he talks using telepathy. 3. I have practiced this for 4 years. 4. Bugs use it to communicate. THERES YOUR PROOF.

Why should we believe you? You claim to have these powers at your disposal yet you can present no evidence.

 

[Janitor]

Can you imagine the advantage that would accrue to an investor or an athlete if they could read minds? The telepathic defensive back knows the next play is going to be a toss sweep right, and can cheat into position to stuff the play. The telepathic Disney investor knows what Michael Eisner is thinking about doing next. The possibilities are endless.

 

[Njorl]

Nobody starves to death in days. If he were locked in a closet, he'd have died of thirst.

Njorl

 

[Ivan Seeking]

Bugs use it to communicate.

Why not start here? Where did you get this idea? Can you provide any links?

 

[Michaelpol]

... You people must be blind. Meet me in person and i will show you real telepathy. One method is You must be able to control what you think of to do it.

 

[Evo]

Nobody starves to death in days. If he were locked in a closet, he'd have died of thirst.

Njorl

Wow, I was thinking the same thing about that post just this morning. Gee, Njorl, we must be telepathically linked!

I truly was thinking about it, perhaps proof I don't have a life?

 

[Ivan Seeking]

... You people must be blind. Meet me in person and i will show you real telepathy. One method is You must be able to control what you think of to do it.

Yes we must be blind since we don't believe unsubstantiated claims made by some person on the internet.

Where do you get your information about bugs. Does this require a meeting?

 

[zoobyshoe]

Nobody starves to death in days. If he were locked in a closet, he'd have died of thirst.

Njorl

Also, he wasn't locked in the sort of closet we think of as a closet today. It was "a monarch's or official's private chamber". Could well have been quite roomy.