Should Adiabatic Work Include VdP?

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SUMMARY

The discussion centers on the calculation of work done during an adiabatic process, specifically questioning whether the infinitesimal work should include a term for volume change. The consensus is that the work done by the gas is accurately represented by W=PdV, while the term VdV is incorrect as it does not represent work. Participants clarified that VdP, which relates to changes in pressure, is also not considered work in a closed system. This highlights the importance of correctly applying the ideal gas law in thermodynamic calculations.

PREREQUISITES
  • Understanding of the ideal gas law (PV=nRT)
  • Familiarity with adiabatic processes in thermodynamics
  • Knowledge of calculus, specifically integration of non-constant functions
  • Concept of work in thermodynamic systems
NEXT STEPS
  • Study the derivation of the ideal gas law and its applications in thermodynamics
  • Learn about adiabatic processes and their characteristics in detail
  • Explore the concept of work in thermodynamics, focusing on W=PdV
  • Investigate the implications of VdP in thermodynamic systems and its relevance
USEFUL FOR

Students and professionals in physics and engineering, particularly those studying thermodynamics and fluid mechanics, will benefit from this discussion.

cj
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My textbook says, basically, for an adiabatic process...
  • All three variables in the ideal gas law—P, V, and T—change during an adiabatic process.
  • Let’s imagine an adiabatic gas process involving an infinitesimal change in volume dV and an accompanying infinitesimal change in temperature dT. The work done by the gas is W=PdV.
Question: if P, V, and T are all changing, should the infinitesimal work be: W=PdV+VdV and not simply W=PdV

I've seen pretty much the same treatment in other textbooks and online, and finally decided to try to find out hat I'm missing here. Any ideas?
 
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cj said:
My textbook says, basically, for an adiabatic process...
  • All three variables in the ideal gas law—P, V, and T—change during an adiabatic process.
  • Let’s imagine an adiabatic gas process involving an infinitesimal change in volume dV and an accompanying infinitesimal change in temperature dT. The work done by the gas is W=PdV.
Question: if P, V, and T are all changing, should the infinitesimal work be: W=PdV+VdV and not simply W=PdV

I've seen pretty much the same treatment in other textbooks and online, and finally decided to try to find out hat I'm missing here. Any ideas?

PV work is PdV. VdV is Volume^2, which is not work. Did you mean VdP instead? As Chester Miller has discussed in another recent thread, VdP is not work -- i.e. heating or cooling a gas in a closed, constant volume container does no work. The piston on the old train moves as the steam does work...

Perhaps you are bothered that P and V are both changing..?? This is just like any other integration of a non-constant function.
 
Yes and yes!

Yes, I did mean to type VdP rather than VdV. And yes, I can see how VdP is not work. Thank you very much, this is very helpful!
 

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